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Bernard: The PiP demand is there, Toyota has just decided not to make many of the 1st gen PiP and recently stopped manufacturing them. If they made more, they would have had a lot of sales. So Toyota decided it wouldn't be a success, not the customers. Gen IV PiP due out next year. I've got a 2012 PiP and even with the small EV battery, I still have 1/3 of my total miles via EV. Perhaps they stopped production because they felt that the car, in the wrong user's hands, would be a blemish on Toyota. In the right user's hands, it is fine and very nice. So I'll agree that the PiP was not successful, but I'll argue that Toyota pulled the rug out from under it and it could have been successful had Toyota decided to put embrace it.
They are also buying back older Model S cars and reselling them as Certified Pre-owned. Easy way to make money and up the number of cars sold.
They are investing in the future. I guess people don't understand that you have to spend money to make money. Put your money under the bed mattress or bury it in the back yard - nice and safe and useless.
strange that they don't charge for KWh. 10 mins on an 80% full battery gets you less energy into the battery than when starting with a 10% full battery. Maybe that is incentive to get off the meter once you are at 50 or 60%
@SJC - Roadster pack upgrade (small volume) today is $29,000. OK fine, but has no bearing on what a model S pack will cost in 10 yrs. Tesla aims for $100 / KWh by 2020. Cost = 8500 in 2020. Price should fall further by 2025. I can't see it being above $10,000 - and it will most likely be a 100 KWh pack in 2025. Don't apply static logic to a dynamic situation.
@SJC - you think that in 10 yrs from now the battery is going to be 2x higher than prices today? No, not a fair assumption at all - way off the mark.
oops 60,000 KWh not 66,000 KWh. Still, I can't see anyway to get to $42K in fuel savings.
@ How do you save $42,222 of fuel with 200,000 miles driven in 10 yrs? A prius would get you there at 50 mpg in 4000 gallons of gas. at $3 / gallon, this is $12,000 total in fuel. OK - maybe you are comparing it to a 20 mpg car but then that is still $30,000. I'll bet you didn't include the electricity cost either. Model S gets about 3.3 miles per KWh - That means 200,000 miles needs 66,000 KWh at 10 cents per KWh that is $6600 in electricity - say you get half of that from superchargers, that is still $3300 unaccounted for. How is $42222 a conservative number?
@SJC - where do you get your numbers that 85 KWh batteries will cost $20-30,000 in the year 2025? I'd like to see the assumptions you made.
Norway is not a member of the EU, thus Norway is not included. They have nearly 62,000 such vehicles according to the study below. Go Electric!
Wow, lots of negative comments here. This is more like a vision statement from Toyota, as nobody seriously plans specifics 35 yrs out - too much will change along the way. Autonomous driving is coming. Humans are not bad at it, but sorry, computers will have fewer fatal accidents. If all of the light duty vehicle miles driven in the US were suddenly converted to electric, the annual US usage of electricity would increase 10% from ~4000 TWh to 4400 TWh. I wish people would do some math before making claims.
@Davemart, Yes, good points. However, the factor was 50% before wind or solar was a significant number. Germany has managed to integrate high percentages of wind power, but OK, their country is smaller. I'd argue that solar tracks air conditioning use, so that relieves some of the intermittent issues of solar. I have not run the numbers on how much storage is needed to avoid adding gas fired turbines to the mix, but smart metering and smart appliances may be able to help avoid shortages during max hours. I would think the biggest concern would be figuring out the probability curve of solar/wind minimum output vs duration - what do you have to prepare for based upon your renewable mix.
Overall US capacity is ~1 TW and annual generation is ~4000 TWh. Since there is ~ 8000 hrs in a year, the overall average capacity factor (if I'm using that term correctly) is ~50%. There must be a lot of idle generating capacity out there to bring the average down to 50%. So when I see that solar's is ~25%, and wind ~30%, it's not actually as bad as it seems.
Best comments I've heard in awhile. (-: There is also the chance that peak oil demand has occured.
@Harvey, No, providing cheap water to people would just encourage people to waste it. It must be priced at a level at which people aren't willing to let it run down the drain while they answer the phone or check their email.
Is it too hard to also state how many hrs/mins these things need to run? 4 hrs vs 15 mins makes a big difference.
They needed a study to figure out that incentives have an impact? I hope the states and feds did at least a preliminary study to figure out the sweet point of incentives before handing them out.
People buy plug-ins despite the dealers, who typically don't know anything about the cars (my experience in Az). They know the car better than the salesperson and are annoyed that the sales person is so ignorant. - my experience.
It does seem like a garbage study. Are they saying the carpool lanes are congested? Then this freeway is screwed up to begin with. Why people put up with LA traffic is beyond me.
Makes the roadster look pretty good.
They do airport terminal buses for one. LAX demo I believe.
A battery is simply a complex gas tank that stores electrical fuel. The electrical fuel costs between 6 cents and 50 cents per KWH. With the driving habits of today's drivers and the need to go 75 to 80 mph for long stretches, that gets us between 2.5 and 3.0 miles per KWH or 2 cents to 20 cents per mile. But the battery (fuel tank) cost dwarfs the kwh cost. Right now, those electrical gas tanks costs more than the car. It is good to try alternative paths until the batteries can come down in price.
I hope the next gen is noteworthy. 25 million gallons is about 1/2 million barrels of oil, which we in the US consume in about one hour. Not much but a good trend to begin with.
500 Wh/liter when coupled with 4.0 miles/KWh means: 16 gallons (3.8 liters/gallon) of batteries would yield 0.500 * 3.8 * 4.0 * 16 = 121 miles ho hum