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Africangenesis
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@dsimon, You seem quite reasonable, are you from Pittsburgh by any chance? How many reasonable dsimon's can there be? If so, I'll contact you as my human identity via another channel. It isn't just extreme humanism or gaia believers that want to impose their morals by force. Humanists have been active in promote sex and diversity education in the public schools and with compulsory education many who had different values and few means had little choice before homeschooling gradually became a accepted option. The gaians have generally bought into the global warming fears and support imposing cap and trade type solutions through government coercion. If these positions don't seem fanatical to you, perhaps that is a demonstration of how difficult it can be to see things through someone elses eyes. regards
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@DFS, Let's restrict it to male homosexuals then, since lesbianism seems to be different in character and likely to have a different genetic and environmental basis. The obese contract STDs too, but apparently the male homosexuals contract more. It would be a surprise if some of the genetic basis for homosexual orientation doesn't also contribute to the riskier sexual practice. However, I don't favor gay reparative therapy anymore than I favor obesity reparative therapy, unless the participants want it for themselves.
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@Robert B., The "philosophies" go beyond "trying to convince others", the seek to impose their views by force. The truths the founders held to be self evident, were to be free of such people. Most religions as practiced in America are benign compared to these philosophies as expounded these days.
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@DFS, I will give you search terms in case there may be a limit on links in posts: obesity monitor obesity tax obesity healthcare premium casey bullying video obesity push away from the table Keep in mind that one can be healthy and obese, just as one can be healthy and homosexual. The health associations are just statistical, and as to your point, the statistical association is greater with homosexuality, yes probably because of AIDs, STDs and high risk behaviors.
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@dsimon, You chose to be dimissive by emphasizing the differences among marxism, gaia, animal rights, secular humanism and environmentalism. Yes people have different subjective values, but what these have in common with religions is the presumption to prescribe behavior for others, and among the fervent believers the right to impose their value system by force upon others. The animal rights movement is more than just knowledge that animals can experience pain and suffer, presumably the sickos that torture animals know that. The assertion of rights and the purpose of the movement is their belief that the behaviors of others is not right and that something should be done about it. Marxism is part of the Hegelian philosophical school that believes massless collective identities such as nation states, classes and races imbued with rights that supercede those of the individual. It has an eschatology and a mystically powerful dialectic. etc.
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@DFS, If you have a gay identical twin, you are more likely to be heterosexual than homosexual! If you have older male siblings from the same mother you are more likely to be heterosexual than homosexual. The genetic basis of heterosexuality has been established across the animal kingdom, independent of the complexity of human intelligence and culture. In humans it has been established on many levels, from cross-cultural concordance of waist to hip ratio preferences, to genetically controlled developmental processes. I have no issue with homosexuality, and appreciate male Darwin award winners. My issue is with the hypocrisy of those advancing arguments for special rights for collective identities rather than individuals. Homosexuality rhetoric is just a convenient exemplar. I don't think you will find the per capital health care cost comparison favorable to homosexuality vis'a'vis obesity. The acceptance of obesity is much less in this society than the acceptance of homosexuality and the obese don't have the option of being in the closet.
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On myth 4, "religious" as in religious belief may have a broader scope than just religion. Many sceptics are opposed to religious, faith or non-evidence based belief of any kind. In this sense, marxism, gaia, animal rights, humanism, environmentalism can all be seen characterized as religions when they have their absolutes, their fervent believers, charismatic leaders and evangelism. Myth 2) As you yourself note "I'm not familiar with this purported "silent majority" of religion- loving atheists that Scofield is talking about". Perhaps that is because most of these atheists are not Atheists, i.e., having adopted the Atheist collective identity. Most scientists are nonbelievers without being activists. About two-thirds of libertarians are atheists, but would probably identify as libertarians first. Religion and a propensity to religious beliefs seems to be the modern human norm, while nonbelief is the outlier. The attitude of the silent majority of atheists might be one of acceptance of religion rather than hostility towards it.
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Hmmm, "If at least one woman says it's OK, then it's OK" Wrong, it would probably have to be at least one woman five or so for it to be OK, because it would probably take a one in ten or at least twenty chance of success for women to reinforce this behavior in men. I think part of the reason this controversy has taken on a life of its own is that the twists and hypocrisy in "reasoning" are enormous. Progressive sites which love to flaunt their sacrilege, mocking, vitriol, vulgarity and skepticism have their politically correct sacred ground. Would the elevator situation be sexism or unacceptable, if it had been between two homosexuals? The same blogs are all over Representative Bachmann because her husband tries to counsel homosexuals about their sin, yet an progressive/atheist element of feminists expect to get a free pass when they try to counsel heterosexual men about their politically incorrect sin. What is the apologia for the distinction? Supposedly homosexuals can't help themselves they are born that way, homosexuality isn't a defect or disease or sin. But where does the evidence lie? The scientific evidence for a genetic basis for heterosexuality in males is far greater, it isn't even close. Heck, (pardon my french), the evidence for heritability of homosexuality isn't even close to that for the heritability of obesity, yet the obesity is increasingly being excoriated as a moral failing.
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