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Mark in Toronto
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Plenty of first round picks started off slow and made it .. more than most actually. If you want to write him off, write him off. but you also would have written off many great players at the start of their careers and been wrong every time. Anywya, I'm out, it's a holiday weekend and not going to spend it with people needing to perform premature conclusions.
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MassD, it doesn't make him a bust. A bust is someone who cant' play. If you think Jordan can't play, you're wrong.
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f4l, I can't make sense of this and have posted it at naseum for a year. Why they insist he HAS TO BE A DE in older to play OLB? What other OLB ever had to prove he was a DE first? This guy's handling has been way beyond bizarre and I wish they woudl trade him because it's obvious they have no idea how to use him although he and outlets like PFF highlight how's he's most effective.
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Dashi, yeah, by all reports, manuel got Watkins hurt with a bad throw. Good for them, hate the bills. NH with the bombshell! Should've covnerted Kumerow to TE!
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MassD, the average 1st round pick from last year's draft started 8 games and only one made the pro bowl. So I'd re-adjust what actually constitutes a bust. As far as instincts. he got positive marks in both pass coverage and playing the run last year. So yeah, your theory is way off base there.
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By the way, why was Sammy Watkins playing in a 4th preseason game? And he got injured... Sparano went north?
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So if you wanted to see anything from yesterday's game - you wanted to see a depth player that could potentially outplay his slotted position on the team as 2nd stringers at best - those guys to me were Chris McCain and jelani Jenkins. Very encouraging for those two guys and good for them for standing up.
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So because he can't start behind a couple of por bowl caliber DE's, he's a bust? But if he was properly moved to his natural OLB position, he'd definitely start. then he wouldn't be a bust? Chile please...
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Sigh, you can't properly assess a draft until years down the road. Actually 2013 has several players who's book are not even close to being closed yet. when we know what we have in ... Dion Jordan Jamar Taylor Dallas Thomas Will Davis Jelani Jenkins Dion Sims then you can assess. Even that 2011 draft I was referring to just now didn't look very good up until Dustin Keller got injured, did it? So stop with the instant way premature conclusions. It still can turn out that 2013 could be one of the best Dolphins drafts ever... you just don't know. Fact is nobody other than Mike Gillislee is even close to being on the team bubble.
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2011 he came out with a pro bowl centre, a top nickel corner back who can also play FS, and a pro bowl caliber TE and we still want to poke holes in that draft? That draft was as good as they come for ones that don't include franchise Qbs. They don't come any better than that.
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wally, you nailed it there. 3 was not to high for him ... he was a 4th pick at the worst. Philly has not stopped trying to get their hands on him yet. You think that franchise knows a little about talent? I would say that I would not ahve picked him there as I had Lane Johnson, Sheldon Richardson, and Tyler Eifert as my three favourites. But now that we have him, it would be an even bigger mistake to let him go. It would be repeating the Ted Ginn mistake all over again. Yeah Ginn was not a 7th over all selection, he was not a #1 Wr. But that didn't mean he couldn't be an excellent player as we've all seen. He dominates (still) on special teams and as a depth WR that can blow the top off a defense, yeah he can do that too. Trading him for a 5th pick was dumb as the first thing the team complained about their WR corps after jettisoning Ginn was that we had no speed. Same thing here. We will complain that we can't cover mobile Qbs and TEs as soon as he leaves.
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I agree, he should be running around like crazy but our DC has had him banging heads with Left tackles all summer. part of me is hoping that Dion jordan will play that jack/elephant role and that is a role you wouldn't really unleash in preseason. omar has said he was running it in practice and OTAs and he got a few performance of the day awards. So maybe/hopefully that is the reason he hasn't really shone too bright in the exhibition. But calling him out as a bust because of preaseason games - especially after he showed promise his rookie year is pretty dumb.
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Slam, why don't you go back and review the snaps Jordan played in the Atlanta, New England (2nd game), Baltimore, and Carolina games and tell me if you don't see game changing type plays being made. You want to gauge him on preseason, go ahead. Your mistake. By the way, there was a strip sack in that Tampa game this preseason your shouldn't gloss over.
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Wow, the uninformed opinions continue to roll in. Jordan a bust? Guy played one year in a part time role and made more impact plays per snap than anyone on our defense. All this while playing out of position and wasn't really part of the offseason program. How about we see him playing in his proper position and then grade him out. I bet he gets to Philly and we will be crucifying this team for letting him go. Judging him by playing DE .. well his greatest assets are length, speed, adn agility so tell me why he isn't playing standing up and in space to take advantage of these things? Anyway, regarding the drafts under Ireland. Fact is Ireland got more players than most of the league in drafts based on four factors ... years in the league, games played, games started, and pro bowls. His 2011 draft was actually expectional... 2012 if tannehill takes another step forward will be an all timer for this franchise. Remember if the Dolphins succeed this year, it will be on the backs of the players that Ireland drafted. I will concede though that McCain is a player that plays a similar role to Jordan and is looking good at pushing him for that role. They have similar skill sets. Don't know how good his coverage skills are but he will be the guy playing the elephant role in the first four games ... or should be but I expect that we will still get more than our fill of Phillip Wheeler failing in that role because our DC is a chump.
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MD20, I'd move to agree with you but surprisingly the pats success now is well into their 2nd decade - agree that it's all brady related and QBs of that ilk are tought to replace ... as we all know too well. So onone hand I do agree that there is no proof of there being success after Brady marches on but on the other hand I would agree that 15 years of success gets you ranked. Not as a top 3 franchise but easily top ten - maybe even five.
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Indeed nice piece on James and I have to admit that he's performed quite well even though I'm not the biggest fan of spending 1st picks on right tackles.
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Darkoak, NeMo deserves the credit for solving the case of the source of the dead money though. But yeah, I think if Miami did something like this with a 6 time pro bowler (if they had one on the roster), this place would be a blazing inferno of hate towards the team. A puzzling move for a gain (is it substantial?) on the cap. Funny thing is the savings would be roughly the same as cutting matt Moore - a move I would endorse but I don't think the team or most of the fanbase would go for - and that's on a backup - not a borderline hall of famer.
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By the way, that cap savings is only $2M this year and $3M next year... Is $5M enough to lure Revis? Not on it's own but with the cap going up and the $12M they have rolling forward, yeah maybe.
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Yeah SWC, guess they just see better use for their cap than paying a 6 time aging pro bowler that much cap space. As NeMo put it... could be a big picture thing. Are they better off with Mankins or with a mediocre (no disrespect) TE, 4th pick, and whatever they can "buy" with the incremental savings? If it's Revis or another multiple pro bowl player they can lure, then yeah I guess they are better off.
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ah, NeMo, thanks for explanation. So with a different structuring, they could've avoided this cap hit. Ha, good on them for not doing their due diligence!!
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http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/cap/2014/ SWC, look at the bottom section. They also have $7M dead for Hernandez ... no pun intended.
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Furthermore Darkoak, I checked Mankins cap hits and related guaranteed money on Spotrac as the trade news broke and there was only guaranteed money attached to the contract in 2013 and none in 2014 and onwards. So this triggering of cap hits is something to do with CBA language and trades. I also read post trade that the dead money would not have applied if Mankins was released outright. Obviously they knew this would happen as they employ people with a through knowledge of the CBA and the cap language and still decided to do it anyway. I find the whole series of events very confusing.
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Darkoak, I originally thought there was any dead money on Mankins contract left but because they traded him, it resulted in some of that guaranteed money/dead money being left on the pats tab. I originally read something about this the other day and found it strange. Today I checked Spotrac and they report the same thing. 4.25M dead this year and $4M dead next year. OUCH!
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really, nobody complains about the o line when Moore plays? Moore played for 5 snaps behind this line last year and threw two INTS. If he played a whole year and had 500 pass attempts, he might have thrown for 250 INTS... See how good Tannehill is by comparison??
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SWC@ 1:40 1. This TE and a 4th rd pick is no replacement for a 6 time pro bowl OG - even for one with only one more good year in the tank. 2. Trading him resulted in incurring $8M dollars in cap charges. From a cap perspective, it would've been cheaper to just send him walking. I guess it all depends on this TE. IF he becomes the next Aaron hernandez then it's worth it. But if he does nothing then it's a collasal bomb on the pats' part.
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