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Arne
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"Acceleration 0-100 km/h in 10 seconds Maximum speed of 120 km/h (75 mph)" Ok is this a joke? You won't win many hearts and minds with these kind of specs. I presume the new Saab focuses on the same premium market segment as before, accompanied by a premium price tag. 200 km range is probably NEDC, giving a 100-120 km real world range.
"high total energy (well-to-wheel) efficiency" That's the problem with hydrogen vehicles in a few words. If you're talking about a 'well' means you're still dependent on fossil fuels. Which is the the case for today's hydrogen vehicles: they run on H2 obtained from steam reforming methane. It has already been determined that methane leaks during drilling, production, transport, etc. offsets any climate benefit since methane is 30x as strong a greenhouse gas as CO2. If you get H2 from electrolysis, then the 'efficiency' claim is in trouble, since the whole pathway of electricity --> electrolysis --> compression/liquefaction --> transport --> fuel cell --> electricity is way more inefficient than using the same electricity directly in a BEV. But let's see the technologies battle it out. Maybe there's a market for both of them.
SJC, do you understand exponential growth? It seems you extrapolate linearly, just like all forecasters do. They just don't get the concept of exponential growth. Global sales of plugin vehicles was 0.3% in 2013, double that of 2012. 2014 will also see strong growth, with Volkswagen entering the game. Plugin vehicles will be 1% of sales in a few years, say 2017 or 2018, beating the Navigant forecast by almost 2 decades. How can they be so blind? They just stare at their computer screen, filled with Excel spreadsheets and their 'models' and forget to look out the window to see what is happing in the real world. Ivory tower syndrome at its finest.
"Plug-in hybrids (PHEVs), battery-electric vehicles (BEVs), and fuel cell vehicles (FCVs) together will add up to less than 1% of the MHDVs in use in 2035" Huh? Sales of these vehicles in important markets like the US & Europe is already approaching or in some cases (Norway, Netherlands) surpassing the 1% mark. World wide, the share of plugin vehicles is now ~0.3% and growing fast, probably reaching 0.5% this year already. We will sail past the 1% of sales before 2020. Add 15 years to replace the existing fleet and you can see that in effect, Navigant is predicting that sales of plugin vehicles will not grow between 2020 and 2035. Ridiculous. Who pays them for this?
For the next generation 3600 mAh/g anode material, you'd need less than a gram per cell, shaving 9 grams off a 2600 mAh 18650 cell. With 7000 such cells being used in the Model S, that would result in an immediate weight reduction of 60 kg. One 18650 cell weighs around 45 g, meaning a 20% weight reduction and 20% increase in energy density. Theoretically, you could have a 100 kWh Model S by using this material. Will Tesla be looking into licensing this material for production in their gigafactory?
A week ago I went to the first opening of a fast charging station with the ABB 53 CJG in Heerhugowaard. The 43 kW AC outlet which I, as a Zoe driver, was most interested in, was not yet available, pending certification. That last bit is to be expected mid May, after which it is fully certified. The business unit that developed this charger is former Epyon, which was bought up by ABB.
I can't believe they are still pouring money into range extender technology. Within a few years, electric cars will have enough range and fast charging capabilities to turn the plugin hybrid into a temporary quirk of history. Maybe there is a longer lasting niche market for plugin hybrids, but a niche market doesn't justify spending a lot of R&D money.
Indeed this seems more like a step on the voyage to more knowledge, than a concept for a practical battery in a few years time. But conventional Li-ion batteries have still much room for improvement and capacity will slowly and steadily grow until LiS batteries or another advanced chemistry are ready for mass production. That first generation of suboptimal LiS batteries will only be marginally better than the Li-ion batteries at that time. From the perspective of the customer there will never be a breakthrough, just steady, evolutionary improvements. And that's all we need. Growth of EV sales is hampered by more things than limited battery capacity. As long as they can keep 7% improvement per year going, that's fine by me.
Never mind that lanthanum costs about a fifth of neodymium and less than half as both samarium and cobalt. It pays off to do research before posting.
"politions can be bought by either side of the issue." JMartin, I don't think Tesla is 'buying politicians' with their Gigafactory. There is a fundamental difference with 'campaign contributions' (aka legalised bribes). First and foremost, the gigafactory does not profit the politicians directly and/or personally, rather it is for the state economy. The legislature has every right to amend laws to favour their economy. There is nothing insidious about that.
A temporary fix for copper shortages, as technology will move away from copper wiring to carbon nanotubes.
Bummer. And here I was expecting room temperature superconduction. Is there anything graphene can't do?
@Mannstein No absolute records were broken, so stop whining. You have had colder winters. And while we're at it, can you send some of your cold and deliver it in Australia where they suffer sort-of permanent heat waves and bush fires? And do something about the flooding in England, please? Maybe get some water in Brazil for the Paulistas? The climate is changing and we're not better of from it. No denying will change reality.
It is a bit disappointing that more than 3 years after the introduction of the LEAF, all VW can do is come up with a car that has nearly identical specs. As Davemart says, the only thing it has going for it is that the VW engineers have apparently done a better packaging job by not letting the battery intrude into the passenger compartment as much as in the LEAF (or the Zoe for that matter). And at €34,900 it comes with a free retro-style dashboard!
"uptake of these vehicles hasn’t been as high as expected," Keep beating the drum. If you repeat it often enough, people will start to believe it. In reality, EV's have progressed much much faster than anyone would have thought possible a mere 5 years ago. This whole 'EV sales are disappointing' narrative is getting really annoying. It is a totally made up story. "In 2014 and the coming years, automakers will deliver concept and production EVs with large batteries that have capacities of approximately 40 kWh," I wonder who that might be. To my knowledge, no manufacturer has shown anything that might hint to a 2014 introduction of an EV with 40 kWh battery. (not counting Tesla which are already available and perhaps some unaffordable Audi e-Tron supercar)
"Most people don't drive 200 miles daily." Once a year is enough for them to want a car that can do that in a practical way. Once a month and they not only want it practical, but also convenient. Once a week and they want a car that can do that without recharging. Only one car can comply to those demands.
"I do not expect this type of BEVs to make it over 2% of the global market for cars ever." Well, duh. I didn't see 'portable' telephones weighing 2 kg and costing >$3000 making it to more than 0.1% of consumers. Oh boy, I was totally right ;) "evaluation showed results exceeding 100 miles in some instances." I already know enough. 'in some instances' is pr speak for 'on a closed circuit with constant speed'. They chose their probably most unaerodynamic car for electrification (facepalm). The only thing that makes this BEV interesting is the polymer battery with high energy density. Another thing of interest is the pricing.
E-P, What surge power demand are you talking about? Cars are mostly recharged overnight and won't start at the same time, just like people don't collectively switch on their electric kettle at the same time (which would bring down the grid immediately). People have different life styles and schedules. If all cars were electric, that would increase US electricity consumption by ~20%. That 20% increase will take place over 2 decades and enough technology will be available for grid operators to throttle demand from charging cars. Very useful resource. There is no problem.
This is a very promising start-up. I expect much from them. The image shows a separator made of "Non-woven cellulosic material". Is that technobabble for 'paper'?
More importantly Harvey, this is commoditisation = reduced price
"That's my point. If the car can take a few minutes of 300 kWe discharging" Nope. In normal life, the car will never get 300 kW during a few minutes. Try a few seconds. Then it reaches top speed and the speed limiter will kick in and reduce power. To go 210 km/u, the Model S probably needs ~130 kW. That is right in line with the max continuous power of the Supercharger. "it should be able to take a few minutes of charging at that rate." And what good would a few minutes do when you want to fill an 85 kWh battery? "managed to break multiple Tesla Sportsters early on." Ah, changing subjects. Troll tactic. And if your point is to say: you see, a Tesla can break. Good for you, I never said it couldn't. "are able to work at 200 kW continuously @ 250kph." The Model S is not capable of 250 km/h, so wrong comparison there. "The story from Technology Review indicates that Tesla feels they can go for a 5 minute 50% fast charge in the future." Did you read that? it says: in the future, as in: not today, meaning: not with the current batteries. Currently the Model S battery can not charge at 300 kW. Today's 120 kW Superchargers gradually reduce power above ~50% SoC. Why would Tesla do that? I think you know the answer.
In case you missed the bloody obvious: The Model S was designed for daily use on normal roads. Achieving 300 kW continuous is totally impossible there.
"what that means is you'll damage the battery if you drive the Tesla in a sporty fashion most of the time. Basically, it would mean that if you can't charge for 300 kWe for 10 minutes, then you'll break the car with 10 minutes on a racing track. You've put your imagination in the driver's seat. The Model S is not a track car. It will protect its battery by reducing power if driven hard around a track (as owners have confirmed). Even if it would not do so, you would be hard-pressed to actually achieve 300 kW continuous, since a track has curves for which you have to throttle back. Apart from that, you'll quickly hit the 210 km/h top speed, at which point the Model S's speed limiter kicks in by reducing power. Please stick to the facts, Tesla engineers are smart enough not to build a car that would destroy itself.
acr, You are confusing peak power with continuous power. 300 kW is peak, 120 kW is continuous. 120 kW is ~1.4C, at the threshold of what Panasonic recommends for their 18650 NCA cells.
@sd Yes. For that nostalgic 20th century feel...