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Tom Wark
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Alice, I"m not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm saying that this is about as far from the truth as you can get: "most of todays wines are not made by commonsense and vintage, but by marketer and machine" In fact, I'd wager the exact opposite is true.
Alice, If when you wrote "most of today's wines are not made by common sense, but by marketer and machine" you meant those wines most likely to show up on shelves of supermarkets in Pierre, South Dakota, then what you should have written is that "Most of today's most commonly consumed wines are made by marketer and machine. But you didn't write that. You made the same kind of statement that too many really pernicious Natural wine defenders make: you suggested that most wines produced today are manufactured. But the fact of the matter is, while most of the wine drunk today costs under $10 a bottle and is purchased by folks who simply want something wet, alcoholic and fruity, and that are made predominantly by the brands on the Drinks Business list, the VAST MAJORITY of the wineS produced today are made my small wineries located across the country and produce relatively small amounts of wine. And you've indicted most of them with the way you wrote your statement. Those wineries don't deserve it. Here's the bottom line: If you think the majority of the 9,000 wineries in the United States and the majority of the wineries across the globe are simply manufacturing wine according to marketers with absolutely no reference to anything else, then say so. However, if you are only referring to the 10 or 20 largest suppliers in the world, then say that. If you don't make this distinction then you literally tar 50% of all winemakers in the world with the "manfacturing and marketing" brush. Cheers...and with respect, Tom....
Alice, So, you meant "most of the wine drunk today", not "most of the wines", the latter implying that 51% of all the wines produced today are made by "marketer and machine". But I think you should have a problem "eyeballing the world's wines and making this determination. The U.S. alone has over 9,000 wineries. You can't possibly know the conditions of production or marketing for all the wines these 9,000 wineries produce, let alone the 1,000s of other wineries in the world. Again, you are my go-to for Natural wine. But suggesting that half of all the wines made in the world are nothing more than products of marketing and machine is the same problematic thinking that has plagued other promoters of Natural wine who regularly suggest that anything other than "natural" wine is either bad for your or made in an an underground factory where rash-producing chemicals are use rather than grapes.
Alice.... You wrote: "most of today's wines are not made by common sense, but by marketer and machine" Im not sure what you mean by "Marketer and Machine" but I do know that "most" means at least 51%. How can you say with any confidence that 51% of the wines produced tody are made by "marketer and machine"? You don't know this. No one defends "Natural" better than you. You are my go to resource. But, to suggest that 51% of all wines produced today are somehow unauthentic strikes me as the same kind of hyperbole that the worst of the Natural champions have too long gotten away with.
Alice: A couple things. The WBM article was not used as "fodder" by an "anti-Natural wine crowd." However, given the emphasis on wild yeast fermentation among champions of natural wine, its hard to deny that this topic would not be of significant interest to the "natural" wine world. Second, I'm wondering about this: If there is a new winery built and the owners commit to a wild yeast fermentation, and it turns out that the wild yeasts that are present in and control this fermentation turn out to be the aggressive, common, commercially produced yeasts that are sold in catalogs (due most likely to their common use by other wineries in the region and that have become the common ambient yeasts in the region), this is still a "wild" yeast fermentation, right? Or has the fermentation been "fucked up" by the winery's neighbors, as Hank puts it? Finally, the claim that thee is no such thing as a wild yeast fermentation was not mine. It was a quotation.
AWESOME!!!!
I would argue that a lack of definition for what is "natural" in the wine world is helpful for this movement: It allows the promotion of the "idea" without having to adhere to anything in particular. On the other hand, it means that anybody can righteously call their wine "natural" and have every legitimate reason to call it "natural" without any fear that their labeling of their wine natural being called into question.
BevLJ Out of state wine retailers would happily pay for permits as well as remit state taxes. They do in other states already and the direct shipment of wine from out of state retailers has done nothing to put local retailers out of business.
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Dec 15, 2010