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Ridgefield, Washington
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Neven, this is a wonderful opportunity for you to really gather the information to put climate change in proper perspective(Not that you don't do a great job already!) Hopefully you will reconsider going to more than just one day. I have been to two Nation Science Teachers of America in Portland, Oregon USA and the other in San Jose, California USA. That was a few years ago(circa 2001-2003) but I consider attending these to be high points in my life. The volume of information scientists were publishing at that time about recent different studies and research was truly overwhelming. The American Chemical Society had a few presentations about atmospheric and oceanic effects of man-made greenhouse chemicals and how they were working to reduce the use of these. What I came away with from them was about things I didn't even know that I didn't even know existed about the monumental and subtle effects of some of these chemicals on earth's climate. One other important thing I brought from these symposiums was the effects of so many seemingly innocuous things and how they affect climate. The sheer volume and variety of information helped me put a few things together quickly which otherwise may have never happened at all. One suggestion: Take pictures of the posters if allowed. If you run out of time looking at all of them you can look at the pictures later.
Also a tidbit from Weather Underground weather historian, Christopher C. Burt: "Possible New Continental Heat Record for Antarctica"
Toggle Commented Mar 28, 2015 on Shock news! at Arctic Sea Ice
Bill, I thoroughly enjoyed your post. I got a couple chuckles here and there but I do have a couple questions/observations... "btw what's an "ice" seal?" I was thinking maybe of a generic type of a seal type animal carved out of ice...hmmm.... Or maybe when a waterpipe freezes and it is sealed full of ice. I would consider that to be an "ice seal." Or even a film of frozen water over the top of soft snow. Now that would be a real "ice seal." How about an ice arch? Now that could be could be considered to be an "ice seal" now couldn't it? This is the first I have heard about "ice seals" so I was rather scratching around for an answer and I do like your analysis of "ice seals" as well. Btw, I like your sign off handle, 'cheers bill f," however I do feel annoyed when someone else plagiarizes it. I mean, really, are sign off handles that limited?
Toggle Commented Mar 27, 2015 on Early record, late record at Arctic Sea Ice
Okay, eastern North America got 14 to 15 feet of snow. Out West places that normally get 30 to 40 feet of snow got a couple feet(Ok, exaggerating a little for some higher elevations but areas above 6000' feet might have gotten 5' to 10' especially in Washington state and British Columbia. Wide areas that normally get 10' got less tan 2' and most of that has melted except it is snowing in most areas of Washington state above 3500' now but not forecast to last. So, all that snow in the East will not make up for what we normally get here that doesn't mostly melt until late July or early August some years.
Toggle Commented Mar 24, 2015 on The Ns are calling the maximum at Arctic Sea Ice
Bill thanks, you are absolutely right about the 540 cal/ gram. I read the article from NSIDC. Yes, good information but it really didn't answer my questions so I will rephrase them: If one cm of ice sublimes from the ice surface into the air, where does all the heat come from to sublime the ice and how much does it affect the freezing of the ice? If one cm of ice equivalent condenses on the ice from the air where does all that released heat go and how much does it affect the freezing of the ice? I am not sure about the effect but it must at least be something.
Toggle Commented Mar 20, 2015 on Early record, late record at Arctic Sea Ice
One thing I am wondering about, considering the feeble response of the ice this year, is how much relative humidity affects freezing. I have asked this question before a few years ago but did not get very much response. Consider that the heat of water vapor condensation(600 calories/gram + 80 calories/gram since the ice is going directly to vapor from ice) is about 8.5 times the heat of fusion alone(80 calories/gram). Therefore when relative humidity is low subliming 1cm of ice from the surface will cause 8.5cm of ice to freeze on the bottom for a net gain of 7.5cm. provided that 100% of this heat comes from the ice and none from the air to change the ice to water.(I am NOT suggesting that the efficiency is anywhere near 100%.) If the relative humidity is in the 90% range and there is no sublimation nor deposition then the ice thickness should not be affected by humidity but could still be thinner at similar temperatures in the past that had low humidity conditions. Likewise, if the relative humidity is near 100%, then for every 1cm deposition of ice equivalent of frost should prevent 7.5 cm of ice from freezing if 100% of the heat goes into the ice. Again, I am NOT suggesting the efficiency is near 100%. I do not know how much effect this has on freezing ice but I have watched ponds freeze under dry or humid conditions and the depth of the ice formed in the same number of days and similar temperatures is quite significant. I suspect this has been thoroughly researched but I have not seen any numbers published about the effects of humidity. Based on numerous posts on this blog, it appears the the arctic has been considerably more humid this winter than in the past which could be contributing to how feebly the ice has responded. Any ideas about this or information would be most helpful.
Toggle Commented Mar 19, 2015 on Early record, late record at Arctic Sea Ice
The suggestion that this kind of stuff is unknown to scientists is simply embarrassing." Bill, spot on. I am also waiting for Cincinnatus to publish a longer list than I of valid and reliable studies that provide good evidence that climate change is a matter of natural variation and that human activities have nothing to do with it.....haven't seen a longer list than mine from anyone in fact. (See my post in "Thinner and Thinner" about my list.)
Toggle Commented Mar 13, 2015 on Mad max? at Arctic Sea Ice
The Climate prediction Center also suggests that after a week of relatively cool temps in western Alaska during the coming week the warmth returneth:
Toggle Commented Mar 7, 2015 on Mad max? at Arctic Sea Ice
Thanks Bill, I was not sure, just making sure we were on the same page. Thanks for your support. I think there were some valid/reliable papers that came out back in the 1960s and into the early 1970s about particulates and sulfur dioxide causing global cooling and that greenhouse gasses were balancing the cooling. It was, of course. quickly and accurately determined that these effects(human activity causes only NOT volcanic insertion into the stratosphere which might last a year or two) were very short lived....days-weeks or a few months at most..without continued human production. The other part of this was that as greenhouse gasses increased the net effects of sulfur and dust would diminish. We still have sulfur dioxide and dust being produced in substantial quantities. Amazing how accurately it was predicted back in the 1960s how carbon dioxide(if it was continued to be produced from fossil fuels) would take over and so firmly control the "driver's seat." Bill, I think your suggestion to Neven is pretty logical. Where are all of these reliable/valid papers that deniers appear to be referencing? I certainly can't seem to find them. (And if certain people read this comment, "reliable and valid" ARE the operative terms here. If you don't know what "reliable and valid" mean Mr. Webster might be a good place to start.)
Toggle Commented Mar 7, 2015 on Thinner and thinner at Arctic Sea Ice
No, Bill there is nothing there as I felt it a more dramatic response to Cincinnatus than a direct rebuttal. FYI, I have read at least 85% of all posts and comments on this blog since Neven first published it several years ago. I teach high school so sometimes I get overwhelmed and am unable to post much or even read anything for a couple weeks sometimes months but I do get caught up. Maybe you do not recall any of my previous posts. I think it is a tremendous blog and is one of the bright spots educating the world on the serious of this issue. So, I hope you understand that was a supportive statement for this blog as I hope the others reading it did too.
Toggle Commented Mar 7, 2015 on Thinner and thinner at Arctic Sea Ice
Bill, considering no one has appended my list, I consider it complete. How is "complete" cherry-picking? Just curious.
Toggle Commented Mar 6, 2015 on Thinner and thinner at Arctic Sea Ice
Cincinnatus , you may be encouraged to know that I agree with all of the reliable and valid peer review studies published since 2005 I could locate that support your point of view that human caused climate change is virtually non-existent and is instead caused by natural variation. Hopefully, this extensive list or should I say expansive list is complete. However, since there are more knowledgeable posters on here than I, like Jim Hunt, L. Hamilton, Werther, Neven, Epsen, and a number of others, I am sure they may wish to append the list if/when they find any other reliable/valid material published on this premise in addition to this expansive list. (I have included an "End of List" tag so you will know for sure when you have reached the end of this list.) Happy reading. List of what I consider to be valid/reliable peer reviewed articles that provide reliable/valid evidence that climate change is wholly caused by natural variation and not human activities follows: End of List Enjoy!
Toggle Commented Mar 5, 2015 on Thinner and thinner at Arctic Sea Ice
The focus article in the March 2015 National Geographic is: "The War on Science." There are 5 sections and one of these sections discusses the premise: "Climate Change Does Not Exist." Part of the discussion centers around how and why incorrect information gets imbedded into peoples' beliefs. There are a number of reasons such as religious beliefs, well publicized studies which are later proven false, to just believing something incorrect because someone that person believes in says it, etc. My point is, if anyone is interested, this article gave me a much better understanding of why many people do not believe science and possibly some insights into how to deal with this group before as Neven says, there's a risk indeed that all will be punished."
Toggle Commented Feb 27, 2015 on Shock news! at Arctic Sea Ice
"Does @DavidRoseUK only ever write fiction?" I would have to say unequivocally, "Yes!" Great job confronting these morons, Jim, although I am uncertain of your effect. Unfortunately everyone pays the price for the delay in confronting the problem of the disappearing ice.
Toggle Commented Feb 23, 2015 on Shock news! at Arctic Sea Ice
Jim, I did not know you were doing such very important work attempting to keep publishers publishing accurate and truthful information. "Thank you" for doing this and "Thank you" Neven for bringing this to my attention.
Toggle Commented Feb 22, 2015 on Shock news! at Arctic Sea Ice
Werther, no "The RRR ‘Ridiculously Resilient Ridge’ Returns to California By Christopher C. Burt" came from Weather Underground: I have been hit with several subtropical deluges with temperatures running 5-12˚C above normal so there is only minimal snow on the ground below 5500ft. elevation. Even high elevations 7000ft+ have well below normal snow in this area. In between these deluges it has been warm and dry. Today the temperature was 17˚C. about 7˚C above normal. The "RRR" has deflected much of the moisture along with warmth to Alaska and beyond during these dry warm periods. Vaughn
Toggle Commented Feb 13, 2015 on PIOMAS February 2015 at Arctic Sea Ice
I have been too swamped at work(high school teacher) to post much lately but have mostly managed to keep up with at least reading this blog.... The Climate Prediction Center forecast shows above normal temperatures over all/most of Alaska for the next six months and above normal temperatures along the Alaskan Arctic coast for an additional six months after that. If this plays out as indicated then the "surprisingly early melt season" Werther suggests will become a reality. Then warm conditions over northern Alaska would continue to be a source of warmth to spread northward during the summer into fall. NCEP SST Analysis also shows warmer than normal water temperatures in the far north Atlantic pushing against the Arctic ice there as well. Yes it should be an interesting melt season.
Toggle Commented Feb 7, 2015 on PIOMAS February 2015 at Arctic Sea Ice
There appears to be a bit of quite warm water along the southwest coast of Greenland: I believe this is contributing to the calvings in the area. This map also shows anomalously warm water around the fringes of much of the Arctic Ice. Even though the temperatures have been cool so far the ice looks really "rotten." It appears to me that warmer water is contributing a lot to this appearance. Has anyone made definite connections between water temperature and this appearance?
Neven, I just watched/listened to your presentation. I didn't quite realize the uniqueness of your blog nor the value in relation to the uniqueness for such an important topic. Thank you for concentration all this information into an easy to find format and the ability for me to be involved even if in a very minor way. Clearly the work of someone striving to discover and disseminate the truth to the highest degree possible.
Toggle Commented May 19, 2014 on SIPN presentation at Arctic Sea Ice
PIOMAS has updated. Max ice volume was 22,900km^3...2nd lowest on record and just 400km^3 above April 2011. It is setting out to be an interesting melt season.
Toggle Commented May 8, 2014 on 2013/2014 Winter Analysis at Arctic Sea Ice
Thank you Jai, although those are somewhat kinder words than I have for them!
Toggle Commented Mar 23, 2014 on PIOMAS March 2014 at Arctic Sea Ice
Since this thread has migrated over to Greenland ice loss I thought I would add to the pessimism. Assume for a moment we have a lake on the surface of the ice at 0C and 1000 meters above sea level. A crack opens under the lake and the water drains away. The question is how much heat does this falling water transfer to subsurface ice as it falls to sea level. If the water lost no heat to surrounding ice then the temperature increase of the water would be about 2.4C. In other words potential energy is converted into kinetic energy then into heat. I am assuming the temperature of the water when it has fallen 1000meters is still 0C so all of the heat has been transferred to the surrounding ice potentially causing even more melt if the ice is at 0C. The conversion of Mechanical Energy to Heat: This extra heat inside the ice has great potential to cut channels, and weaken underlying ice. I have seen discussion here about the channels and water stored under the ice. The canyons on the surface are also cut into the ice in a similar fashion as the water looses elevation as it runs along the bottom of the canyons.
Toggle Commented Mar 18, 2014 on PIOMAS March 2014 at Arctic Sea Ice
Thanks, that makes sense. All that latent heat stored in the IPWP and elsewhere is causing the hair on the back of my neck to stand up. I hate to think about what a substantial release of that heat over a relatively short period of time could do.
Hans, one of things I have noticed about El Ninos coming on is that weather conditions more like what are expected during an El Nino can begin, at least sporadically, months before an El Nino gets underway. Possibly these pre-El Nino changes are partially responsible for the changes in air circulation patterns that have driven so much heat into the Arctic this winter as well. Analysis of this has been published here to a degree but I do not remember anyone having conclusive evidence. I would like to hear more about this if anyone has more information.
The lively discussions and interchange of ideas on this particular thread have been particularly informative so I want to thank all of the people who posted comments. Hans, hopefully you got enough rain in your area to make a dent in the drought as did I. Unfortunately most of the snow here was limited to above 1300 meters elevation and increased to about half of normal. Below that elevation was mostly rain but it was substantial so the ground is now saturated and rivers are running at normal flows in this area.