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wintermane2000
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I think right now its more important to push domestic sources of fuel no matter f they are green as green can be so that we can get to 100% domestic sources of fuel as fast as we can. Because I don't know about you but it looks like another freaking war is brewing and im damn tired of em. Id like to see us go domestic and let china and india fight the next war for oil instead of us. Lets sit the damn dance out please.
Hopefully in 5-10 years we will have good news in fuel cells batteries AND biofuels. we will likely need em all.
Well already one of the stations in California is directly connected to the pipeline network. I just expect where possible they will site stations near as possible to existing or planned pipeline routes.
It depends on how fast the network of h2 stations need to go up. With the h2 pipeline networks growing rapidly its likely a lot of places you want an h2 station will be close enough to a pipe for a trunk line to be put in to directly feed the station. For faster network build they likely plan to truck the h2 from nearby pipelines or nearby h2 sources.. remember h2 is used dang near everywhere so every large city has a source somewhere in it.. The real question is how fast will all the equipment needed for the system.. pumps tanks pipes.. get cheaper due to increased production rates and improved designs.. That by the way is WHY the industry is going slow at first.. if they wait say 10 years before doing the big push they can build the network for 1/3rd or even 1/5th the price.
Um no. Early on fuel cells were mostly a safeguard in case bad things happened. In case of emergency fund h2 stuff... sort of thing. When bush entered the fray it was mostly a get this ready before peak oil sort of thing. Its JOB is to expand into place before peak oil hits us hard so we can transition things over to it. So its not late as peak oil hasn't hammered us yet. Now as its fuel doesn't cost much per year and the cars while not cheap arnt massively spendy we should see it start to expand as soon as they start offering them and that should be at the time they set waaaay back in the 90s.. 2015..ish.
Hello and welcome to reality. The fact is as most people drive say 10-15k miles a year.. and the typical fcev only needs 1 kg to go 50-100 miles that means a typical driver will only need 100 or so kilos of h2 per year to drive.. that's 2-400 bucks a year. If you cant afford that you cant afford the car anyway or even a moped for that matter...
This was the case long ago with full sized vans and normal cars its the case with a lot of things like even relatively small jeeps and any truck. In a front on collision your toast if your going up against anything taller then you no matter what it is. This just points to the obvious the lower your bumper and front end the more dead your gona be.
Lets say a typical fuel cell car customer plans to drive 15k miles a year. At between 50 and 100 miles per kg of h2 that's 150-300 kilos of h2 per year. So even if it were 10 a pop its 1500 to 3k per year.... so fuel cost isn't an issue. Anyone saying otherwise is just being crazy. Car price... 50-100k per early on falling as the thing ramps up... even at 100k per that's still tesla cost and the range is beyond tesla range... A lot of people will buy these things and the costs will drop.
Its a simple limit of total energy needed vs weight allowed. As you make the truck bigger and haul more and make it go farther the energy needs skyrocket.
Well we know the cars are coming as the larger scale factories to build the stacks are in last stage of prep for limited mass production runs. Gona be a lot of different designs in the first gen of cars. The high temp designs supposedly offer a lot of cost and durability perks as well as a large boost in fuel eff. But for the life of me I have no idea what if any of the cars coming out this side of 2016 use high temp fuel cells. I know one of them WAS but they havnt said anything recently so I have no clue who they were or if they even still exist...
So your assuming combined that bev and fcev will be almost none of the car fleet in 10-15 years?
Well that depends on what they are calling a ...charge... bev makers rarely define a charge as 0-100% and I have seen some define it as 40-70%.. so it varies wildly. Also just because its a 22 kw charger does NOT mean it charges at 22kw all that much of the charge cycle...
This is just a niche product for industrial users of h2 that arnt already near an h2 producer and or a h2 pipeline. Its primary benfit is its cheaper to produce and transport then it is to truck h2 in liquid or gas state with current medium pressure h2 tankers. It likely will prove to be a waste of time the instant the newer tech h2 tube trucks get produced in number. After all even 30 metric tons of the stuff would only result in moving about 2 or less metric tons of h2 they could use. Yes current gaseous h2 tube trucks only carry .35 metric tons each but supposedly newer truck designs can carry far far more.
Look the math is simple kit. We already produce a good amount of our fuel needs.. large enough that yes the tech we can bring to it will push us between 255 and half of our CURRENT fuel needs. That combined with new fossil fuel sources AND with bev and fuel cell cars using other fuel sources... should push us to using no outside fossil fuels a lot sooner then most people think.
Grrr blasting thinjgy posted early. Now we can safely assume 25-50% of our needs can be created via various biofuel techs over next 10-15 years. That leaves between 16% on the low side and 41% on the high side left to replace to reach zero imports. New extraction tech is greatly improving production AND new refineries are allowing us to use heavy and super heavy crude.. Both of thse allow us to reach zero and beyond and with bio allow it rather quickly. And on top of all that bev/fcev and more eff fossil fueled cars allow even faster swing over to zero and beyond. The result of all this is we should go zero this decade or early next.
As always your math sucks. Remember folks at the start we were importing 66% of our needs. 33% was local production. N
H2 is produced in most every city in any industrial nation as its that common a product already. So finding it isn't the issue. Making cost effective durable filling station equipement IS.. but the industry is working on that and will have that handled way before the industry actualy needs it.. 2030-2060 timeframe.
No matter what people think nations that are very good at growing food will grow energy from food crops and this will expand in the coming decades. Part of this will also be a result of massive increases in shipping costs rendering shipment of bulk food totally impossible likely by 2040 timeframe.
The h2 infrastructure supposedly will only cost 4% of the retail price of h2 at the pump over 40 year rollout. So its gona be ok.
Harvey the problem there is we don't have the money. A lot of what we were able to afford we already did everything else we simply cant do right now we don't have the money. So a lot of supposed waste we could cut is waste we cant.
Kit P sometimes you make me wonder... The cost of nthe fuel cell stack is one of the keys they were bloody well talking about damnit. By going to 40 bus fleets they get the stack ALOT cheaper. Then by going commercial volumes they get the stack even cheaper down the road. So it bloody well worked. Simple bloody simple fleet size completes that goal. Also in case you didn't notice the new busses they are coming out with very soon already as they say have an estimated 8 year 300k mile lifespan... very close to the 12/500k goal that is still 3.5 years away. AND AGAIN will be gotten mostly by simple fleet size. In short they have what they need and now its time to go big.
Again they are getting everything they need AND want out of fuel cell busses.. so its a done deal now. It worked.
Yup all they have to do now for the most part is decide on a good single design for the next bus and belt out 40-50-100 of the buggers. Concidering the fleet sizes being talked about in some places that should be no issue at all... assuming enough cities can agree on a design. This is why so many are going fuel cell for busses. Its a lot closer then many think and a lot more certain the before that they will not just hit the goal but go beyond it.
That's the thing dave.. they arnt talking a full 25 50 kw charge its quickly well below that point. So in 18 minutes how many miles of charge do I get? Useful for around town short hop cars that's for sure tho I don't think most of those can even do 20 kw most seem limited to 2-6.6 kw.
snow.. washed out roads... landslides... a lot of places you either own a 4 by 4 or you stock up for being snowed in or whatever for weeks even months at a time. Hell we lived just a few miles from a 100k city back where we used to live but a storm blocked all the ways out for 2 freaking weeks but our econoline van had the clearance to get out. I remember we helped some people shop and so on during that mess.. afterward they all got trucks.