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yoyo
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Walt sorry I missed your response, the clips of Bachmann being beyond stupid are multitudinous, the gift that keeps giving, like her asking followers to slit their wrists to stop health reform, or the time she argues that all schools should stop teaching evolution. The woman is an embarrassment to other women and anyone with a functioning synapse or two.
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Dan, how stupid do you think Obama is? He's grown up around gun nuts, he's been surrounded his whole life by people who fetishise weapons, he is a shrewd poticial animal no matter what you think of him personally. No way in the world would he antagonise a chunk of his base for so little political gain. Come on, he hasn't even repealed DADT!
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I remember there was a case in the states last year of a young woman (14 I think) who was strip searched at school becasue they thought she might have given another girl a panadol. Stupid stupid stuff.
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Shaun and Walt, New York City had many riots/clashes amongst immigrant groups in the 1800's, this is no new thing. So who are you going to remove? There were efforts to stop the Irish and the Germans immigrating as recently as the 30's (in the case of the Germans). In my city there are clashes between teens/young men of different ethnic groups too, it tends to settle down once that groups is past the 2nd generation. However even then you will still have groups fighting over status, space and resources or even football identity. As an aside, do you think the white gangs in prison are the good guys and the black and mexican/southamerican gangs are the baddies? Could it perhaps be that they are equally awful? I am the daughter of immigrants (one an economic migrant from Ireland, the other escaping the war in Eurpoe) and if you go back far enough every one here who is not aboriginal is a decendent of immigrants. The odds are high that you men are not of Indian stock and your forebears came to America for a better life. Sounds like you dont want to extend that option to anyone else. Or is it just non whites you want to restrict?
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Phil, from outside the US I think the Clintons were both greedy oportunists (not murderers BTW). However your country seems to like these dynasties, who the f*k would think that an alcohol affected moron like george the junior would ever qualify to be potus if not for the familial connections and his maliablity to nasty corporations. At least my country tries to run a meritocracy.
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So all those classic American movies, with one gang fighting another are NOT part of your culture? No Marlon Brando, no James Dean, no West Side Story? The Dakota War or the Sand Creek Massacre never happened? This is just anti immigration chest thumping with a sprinkle of "BACK IN THE OLDEN DAYS" and a goodly shake of "I dont like those scary tanned young people".
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Hang on please give a concrete example where this risk adverse administration said it ws going to cancel gun licences or put restrictions on sales. Otherwise it sounds a little too much like Hal Turners ravings.
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whoops, this time it did come though, my bad
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Phil, phil phil each time I try to do a direct reply to a comment it disapears. Anyway are you saying you speak for all on the rightwing in relation to fear of healthcare. I said that from my understanding, the only reason i could find for the fear rightwingers have of universal healthcare is status envy, the idea that their neighbour might get something they're not entitled to.
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Philly philly philly, are you saying that you are representative of all rightwing thought on this topic? I did not say that you dislike your neighbour, I said that the only explanation I can up with for the incredible and fact free rejection of universal healthcare by the right is the rightwing American tradition of not wanting other people to get ahead. the old definition of it is status envy. You made and frequently repeated that leftist ideology is based on lies and then you want me to refute such an obvious but blanket statement. Which lies, by whom? Is this your version of "when did you stop beating your wife?" Here are some simple statements frequently made by the progressive side that are not lies. 1. America is virtually alone amongst western countries in rejecting universal healthcare as a right for it's citizens. 2. America has far worse health outcomes statistically for it's population consideing the amount percapita spent on healthcare. 3. Universal healthcare does not equal communism. 4.No democratic country that has instituted universal healthcare has ever voted to remove the healthcare once established. 5. The unnessesary death of uninsured people for preventable conditions is both a moral and social loss of high order (particularly when those people are children).
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Walt no i wasn't deliberately changing the topic, I actually have some good information on founders as deists but havent had time to dig it out. Your history is not on the tip of my tongue as mine is. Regarding the kids killed by religious parents, the issue is not removing the kids (straw man anyone?) the issue is that the sentencing of religious insane and damging parents is charged and changed by the deference we give to religion as a motivation. If these parents had refused to take their kids to doctors because they were too drug f*kd we would lock them up for years. but let the children die slowly to the sound of prayers and the parents get 30 days in jail for a few years. Huh? just answer that issue, how do we give you your "traditional christian foundation status" without giving nutter religious a free pass?
Toggle Commented Oct 9, 2009 on Do Not Blame Barack at SelwynDuke.com
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walt, this is an example of the danger of placing relgion too prominantly on a pedestal in the public sphere. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/08/us/08sentence.html?th&emc=th Yet another set of parents let's their child die due to the delusion that religion will save them and the penalty is ridiculously light due to the deference we show relgious belief. "Shawn Peters, a lecturer at the University of Wisconsin at Madison who has studied the nexus of religion and the law, said the Neumanns’ sentencing was not unusual. Experts said there had been at least 50 convictions in the United States since 1982 in cases where medical treatment was withheld from a child for religious reasons. “The sentences tend to be halfway punishments where you have relatively mild penalties imposed on parents who are found to be legally guilty of having caused a child’s death,” Mr. Peters said. “It underscores how uneasy we are both politically and culturally when it comes to regulating religious conduct even when the consequences are disastrous.”
Toggle Commented Oct 9, 2009 on Do Not Blame Barack at SelwynDuke.com
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Particularly sorry about the spelling, bear with me if you can. I'm typing with 2 broken fingers and it tends to lead to errors.
Toggle Commented Oct 7, 2009 on Do Not Blame Barack at SelwynDuke.com
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walt, presumably you have some support then for conservapedia trying to rewrite the bible (that inerrant document LOL) so that it is more conservative. secondly i voluntarily studies religious studies at university the first degree, including a major in christian ethics. i actually belive that understanding christian imagry and memes is very important i getting a full understanding of western history. I also stayed for a short period at jewish retreats, ashrams, scientolgist camps and catholic retreats. Comparative religion had been a hobby of mine and very interesting on an intellectual level, I also find some of the theories, art and prayers inutterably beautiful. despite that i can also look at the huge cathedrals in eurpoe and bemoan the sheer amount of human labour wasted in their erection particularly when they were taking from an impoverished population. so no I would not mind my child having a good grounding in religious thought, in fact I set aside one bookcase at home for religion and philosophy. However, i cannot believe that christians have the only grasp on ethics for children, as a mother of girls I particularly want them exposed to everything from epicurius to christ to ghandhi to beauviour. The head of the Anglican church in Aus has sided with the nasty african memebers of the anglican church in a very strong rightward move. The african members are pro AIDs anti gay and anti women, this has to be a factor in how women adress the church. Soprry about the long and rambling response, it does amuse me that you have such a firm idea of what leftists are. I still have not got a strong idea from you on how you expect non-fundamentalists to behave under your new regime. Perhaps that would be a good idea for your next article.
Toggle Commented Oct 7, 2009 on Do Not Blame Barack at SelwynDuke.com
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No offence taken, I understand that many christians may feel dismayed if they feel that their faith is in danger of being surplanted by another (or by none at all). However since you have one of the more plualistic societies (and one of the most overtly relgious western societies) people of other faiths WILL ask for their space in the sun. Therefore I think the pressure to ensure people dont feel excluded or affronted leads to the pressure to remove relgious statements from public schools. One in, all in, or none at all. This has not been such an issue on my polity because we have a more secular society, no one seems to fight to remove nativity scenes for example. and I confess, I dont know if the pressure to remove religious items form the public sphere in your country is in response to an increase in those items. However, my state attorney general from the left side of politics has just let us on the left down by allowing relgious groups to continue to discriminate against people of other faiths, atheists, gays etc even if they receive government funding. So I wouldn't say that it is a unidirectional change these things tend to vary according to many factors including electoral pressures.
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Shaun, If you have the time re-read my first comments on this topic. I dont have a problem with people spreading their relgious belief as long as it is not exclusionary. The comments following basically told atheists to leave the country. Re cliches about religion starting wars that wasn't my comment however we get sick of the cliche about atheist having no morality. Short comment formats tend to lend themselves to sloganeering. as for your last comment, I'm sure you deny the existance of many gods yourself. I'm hopeful that like myself you dont hate all those who follow the gods you dont believe in even if particular adherants or particular points of theology make you sick.
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"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.” I like the quote Susan. I'll add it to this one "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." Steven wienberg let's put that on the cheerleader's banner.
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The first para above was obviously by Walt. (I'm not sure how to do italics in this format)
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Most gays do not have this disorder; they have simply been encouraged to be gay by their parents, friends, and school teachers or as a desperate attempt for attention. Of course there are many excuses gays have given for their condition but most of them just say they were born that way, when in fact they were born physically intact as a specific gender; so the disorder is not physical it is mental. Behavior outside of natural behavior is called a disorder or perversion. leaving aside the conflation of homosexuality with transexuality (and earlier with intersex and gender dysmorphia). I am always amazed that there are educated people in the world that hold such wrong headed ideas. Most gay people are not gay because they were encouraged to be gay. Evidence please? Most gay people really struggle with being gay when they become aware of it (usually) during puberty, due to social disapproval. gay people are physically intact (unless they are disabled for some other reason) so that is a bizarre statement. Same sex attraction is natural. It occurs in all cultures and in many species other than humans. "Peversion" should be held for behaviour that hurts self or others, unless you are using it in a distinctly religious way. BTW most Christians I know do not despise homosexuality and or homosexuals. As for citing rare conditions, I think we had a very early statement about extreme body dismorphia where people reject healthy limbs and comparing that with transexualism. PS I hate to get into the abortion debate with Evangelicals because it cant ever go anywhere productive. However a)if you are going to use an emotive term like babykilling please define baby. how many cells are we talking about? and b)what are your plans for women who are unwilling to stay pregnant for your point of view? The reason i ask is interest in where on the continuum you sit.
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opperation, on a whim.
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Bad hair days, unfortunately you are arguing in good faith but the main people here have christian blinkers on, that coupled with the idea that transexuals are somehow cheating means they do not want to really acknowlege the pain that people with these issues face when they are told to buck up and shut up (coupled with the "you make baby jeebus cry"). I worked with a man who struggled all his life to be a traditional male, including marrying and having 2 children, it was only in his forties that he was finally able to make the transition to "femalehood". it was never a corrupt mad sex drive, he truly suffered his whole life because he felt wrong. No one would give up their job, their place in society and often their family, spend a stack of money, go through painful
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Well i would argue that farm subsidies, particularly of the "pay you to grow nothing" are a form of government welfare. Therefore, to those on this site who are either Galtian or "the market can do no wrong" - conservatives the subsidies should be stripped away and american farmers should compete with farmers from the third world. However since farmers are real americans by Palin logic, I cant see it happening. PS saw an amusing figure today,the budget for one year of operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, part of the 2010 Defense Appropriations bill that'll probably be passed by the Senate today, is $128.2 billion. The cost of the most generous, most public optiony of the health care bills currently under consideration in the Congress is roughly $110 billion a year. Well it would be funny if it wasn't so bloody sad.
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PS one of the most successful programmes fo aborigines is one where govt and private partnerships pay for poor kids from homelands to go to boarding school at extremely good schools. If you call that rascist or communist you are a heartless thug. maybe you think it would be better to put the money into prisons or drug treatment instead. if that is an unfair version of your POV I apologise but i have met many on your side in politics who scream against preventative govt run programmes but are perfectly fine with gvt paying private prisons.
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Why promote racial quotas if one does not truly believe that certain races are inferior? now that's just stupid. as one from the left i disagree with the approach taken in the article this thread is about. But affirmative action programmes were not established because people thought women or aborigines or new migrants were inferiour but becuase it was thought that it was the easiest way to adjust for stuborn structural inequities of access. For example, rural people probably get the most subsidies of this nature in your country and mine. Yet I dont hear the right screaming about that. In my country places are kept aside at universities specifically for rural people because it is assumed it is harder for them to get to university for a variety of structural reasons. The same for the old allocated places for women in faculties such as the law. Most of these programmes seem to be dying a natural death anyway so it's a bit of a strawman. BTW I would love to hear your approach to stipping farm subsidies from US farmers since it sounds sort of communist to me.
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That was hormonal of course not hormal sorry.
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