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Ray Finch
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I am the UKIP candidate in Eastleigh, your no. 11 target. The Conservative candidate, Maria Hutchings, would vote exactly the same way as the Current MP, the EUphile Chris Huhne. There would be no practical difference whatsoever between the two of them. As an aside, we had a hustings meeting in Eastleigh on Tuesday. Maria was the only candidate who used cue cards to answer the questions. You need better candidates. If she is from your A list (I believe she was imposed) then your next government is in trouble before it starts.
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Mr. Cameron seems to have succeeded in turning the Conservative Party into Blue Labour. If all you want is power then fair enough but perhaps Mr. Cameron should quote Groucho Marx in his next PPB "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."
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That is not going to happen. Read the respective constitutions.
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They were elected on a principle. They have been sold out by Mr. Cameron. Therefore they have taken a principled stand. Mr. Cameron is a hypocrite. He made a commitment upon which he has now reneged. There are still men of principle in the Conservative party. You should be supporting them.
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I, as I have made plain on many occasions, am a UKIP PPC and there was never any chance I was going to vote for or support a Conservative Party led by Mr. Cameron. Now you know where I stand you might listen to what I have to say. Your choice. Mr. Cameron has just thrown away any chance you have of winning a Parliamentary majority. Many UKIP members (as you probably know) are ex-Tories who would love nothing better than the CP to become genuinely EU-sceptic. Looking on our internal forum and talking to several of my ex-Tory friends on the phone over the last hour or so, none of them believe a word he says and will now fight you all the way in the GE. The reason is simply this. They will not and cannot support a CP whose leader is so blatantly EU-phile. He mentioned several times in his speech how he was committed to the EU. His policies as set out are neither realistic or achieveable. UKIP members study the Lisbon treaty and look at the various competencies assumed by Brussels. We know what we are talking about. How many of the pro-EU members of this forum have read that insanely complex document. I bet none of you. They know Mr. Camerons limited aims will not be gained because he will not get the other 26 to unanimously agree them. The standard view is you failed to achieve 25 extra seats last time because of UKIP. Given the lower turnout expected at the next GE and the fact that our voters do turn out hell or high water, you are in for a much stickier time next May. I am not telling you this to promote an argument. I am simply being honest with you. I know some of the regulars on this forum read my blog and they will know I am not bullshitting you. I just wanted to let you know how the UKIP activist base have reacted to this. Ray Finch. UKIP PPC Eastleigh.
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And the Blu-Labour Party of Cameron and Clarke have followed their lead.
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Maybe the "Heir to Blair" is just waiting to come into his real legacy?
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The thing that the Conservative Party oes not understand is that we (UKIP) see the Conservative Party as essentially Vichyist. You are not fighting for independence, you are seeking to ameliorate the worst abuses of what we percieve to be an occupying power. Unless and until the Tories proclaim that they will offer a straight In/Out referendum with a commitment to campaign for "Out" you will not get any support from us. Your leadership believes in British subjection to the EU. We do not. It is as simple as that. Ray Finch. UKIP PPC. Eastleigh.
Toggle Commented Oct 26, 2009 on Can UKIP save Brown? at thetorydiary
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Phil old flower. My perspective is "What real difference would a Conservative Government with a pro-EU leadership make compared to what we have now?" I know you are fully alongside the idea of British sovereignty so you must realise that no government can truly govern Britain whilst we are in the EU.
Toggle Commented Oct 26, 2009 on Can UKIP save Brown? at thetorydiary
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As you may be aware (I have made no secret of it) I am a UKIP PPC in one of the key marginals for the Tories (Eastleigh) and the truth is that the Conservative party does not have the reservoir of support that many of you believe it has. There is no sense that people support Mr. Cameron. They simply hate Mr. Brown and his government. As the saying goes, oppositions do not win elections, Governments lose them. The Labour government will lose this election but the fact that the electoral situation is, at present, heavily biased against the Conservatives may mean that the election produces a hung parliament. The question I would like you to ask yourselves is this "Does Mr. Cameron have a USP? Is there a policy position that is so different to Labours, in a manner that the ordinary voter can easily comprehend, that the electorate will get off their backsides and come out and vote for us?" I do not believe there is. Mr. Cameron has so far relied upon 2 things. 1) He is not Gordon Brown. 2) He has a pleasant media persona. If you truly believe that this is enough to enable yourselves to gain a parliamentary majority then fill your boots. Just carry on the way you are going and the very best of British to you. I do not believe this is to be the case. If Lord Pearson is elected as UKIP Leader (He is the favourite to win) then UKIP will promote a GE platform based upon EU withdrawal and immigration control. Immigration is not something that the Conservative party can do anything about if we stay in the EU. Conservative activists need to ask yourselves "Will UKIPs policy platform objectives sufficiently impact upon our core vote, above that of the Labour vote, that we may fail to win a parliamentary majority?" That is the pertinent question.
Toggle Commented Oct 26, 2009 on Can UKIP save Brown? at thetorydiary
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As a UKIP PPC I am pleased that the overwhelming majority of Conservative party members on this thread do not support Mr. Wilshire. If all members of all parties showed the same attitude we would be able to get rid of all of the troughers. Ray Finch UKIP PPC Eastleigh.
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The issue is surely that a manifesto promise of a referendum has since been denied. Mr. Cameron must clearly state now that, whatever the Czechs do, he will hold a referendum on the Lisbon treaty as soon as entering government based on the above fact. He should also state that should the EU seek to block such a referendum or, alternatively, declare the Lisbon treaty enacted, that he will hold a binding referendum on which areas of British lawmaking we are willing to cede to the EU. To do less would be to surrender.
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A large proportion went to UKIP (I warn that I am a UKIP PPC so take it as read my bias on this) but the rest seemed to be spread Green/LD/Con/BNP in that order. Obviously an EU election is UKIPs home turf so some of that is to be expected but there does not seem to be any enthusiasm amongst what may be termed "traditional" Labour voters for Mr. Cameron. I suspect he has been contaminated with the revulsion for the "political class" generated by the expenses scandal. This may also be the reason the LDs did not gain too much ex-Lab support which they surely would have expected to receive as the "non-Tory" alternative. However, as you say, it may not make too much of a difference if your own support holds up there. The likely size of the Labour loss of votes may mean you win the targets by default.
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The issue is simply this: Will David Cameron stay true to his promise of giving us a referendum or will he adopt the Brown/Clegg position. It is perfectly clear that the "battle" over the EU in the Conservative party is not between two groups of members. It is simply between the nabobery (as an earlier commentator so cleverly put it) and the membership. Will Mr. Cameron listen to his membership and win the GE or the nabobery and lose it?
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Aaaaah! the old "Euro-nutters" slur. The one that has enabled the last 3 Conservative PMs to sign away successive treaties to ensure "Ever closer union". Followed up in the old one-two by Mr. Tierney saying "Come back and we will talk about it". Too late, I am afraid. First ask Mr. Cameron why he deliberately sabotaged the Cash amendment. The answer to that is the answer to the question "Why does nobody trust the Conservative Party over the Eu?"
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No shock there. Is he going to give them some lessons on how to fix elections in return for some of our stolen taxes?
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There are no "expenses". There are "Allowances" which are given to each MEP. Mr. Farage received the same as any other MEP. To repeat the smear shows you as either a liar or imbecile. Your choice.
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So what you are saying is that Tories vote for "Nutters"? Nice to know.
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Perhaps that is the problem. All major parties are too centrally controlled and this, I feel, has led to the decay of interest in local associations. "No taxation without representation" has much the same meaning.
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The current struggle for the soul of the Tory party between the Activists (Hannanites) and the Cameroons (Central office) is the most interesting aspect of the post-election Tory government. I have a blog post on it at my Telegraph: http://my.telegraph.co.uk/garrincha Please feel free to join in the debate there.
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I have also blogged on Alan Duncan and also on this subject at my Telegraph blog here: http://my.telegraph.co.uk/garrincha Feel free to comment.
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Are none of you aware that Blears is also being targeted? If the Parliamentary parties are unwilling or unable to get rid of the sleazeballs then the public must.
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The local association has every right to deselect a candidate. The candidate represents that association in the election. If the candidate is seen to be unsuitable then they have every right to change the candidate.
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@Barrus. The most intelligent analysis of the Conservative problem for the GE I have seen from a Tory. Your party either need to be radical or hope to form a coalition with Mr. Cleggs lot. At the moment you are only ahead in the polls because Labour are so detested. Mr. Cameron has no real constituency amongst the British public.
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Mr. Cameron is so obsessed with following his political role model. Remember "Blairs babes"? You are Blue Labour and I claim my Five Pounds.
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