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@ECI,
The average electricity cost at 13 cents/kWh is $2.20 gge compared to 52 MPG gas car. $4k per kg of H2 at 67 MPGe Mirai would cost $3.1 to go the same 52 miles.
L2 and faster public charging are also more expensive.
SAE technical experts: fuel cell technology has advanced significantly, FC vehicle production has begun, further cost reductions & infrastructure development required
Wrapping up the track on the commercialization of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and hydrogen infrastructure held at the 2016 SAE World Congress (earlier post), a panel of technical experts agreed that while significant progress has been made with the technology, and while the first generation of c...
"They begin by observing that the EU’s goal of 95 gCO2/km fleet average emissions by 2020 can only be met by means of extended range electric vehicles or all-electric vehicles in combination with the integration of renewable energy (e.g., wind and solar)."
I am surprised nobody pointed this out.
Gen3 Prius achieved 89g/km 5 years ago. Gen4 should be 18% lower.
Auris HSD emission is similar.
Technical review outlines challenges for both batteries and fuel cells as basis for electric vehicles
In an open-access invited review for the Journal of the Electrochemical Society, Oliver Gröger (earlier post), Volkswagen AG; Dr. Hubert A. Gasteiger, Chair of Technical Electrochemistry, Technische Universität München; and Dr. Jens-Peter Suchsland, SolviCore GmbH, delve into the technological b...
The HEV used in this paper is rated 45 MPG and 59 MPGe for FCV.
Prius is 50 MPG while (Gen4 could be 55-60) while Mirai is rated 67 MPGe.
NG to electricity conversion rate is high (55% used). I believe the current US NG powerplant efficiency is around 40%.
CMU analysis finds BEVs powered with natural gas-based electricity have about 40% of the lifecycle GHGs of a conventional gasoline vehicle
According to a new lifecycle analysis by a team at Carnegie Mellon University, a battery electric vehicle (BEV) powered with natural gas-based electricity achieves around an average 40% lifecycle greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions reduction when compared to a conventional gasoline vehicle. Plug-in h...
53 miles at 106 MPGe would consume 16.85 kWh. Take out 15% charging loss and you get 14.3 kWh used from 18.4 kWh battery pack.
That's 78% depth of charge, very deep. Is it charging to 100% and drained to 22%? Or 90% to 12%?
2016 Chevrolet Volt EPA-rated at 53 miles all-electric range
The Chevrolet Volt’s all-new second-generation Voltec extended-range electric propulsion system (earlier post) delivers 53 miles (85 km) of all-electric range, based on EPA testing. That is nearly a 40% improvement over the first-generation Volt, and a 6% boost over the projected 50-mile (80 km...
Hopefully the rating was tested on the 5 cycles test rather than derived from 2 cycles, like Fusion hybrid.
Honda two-motor Accord Hybrid goes on sale in US in October; 47 mpg combined
2014 Honda Accord Hybrid Click to enlarge. Honda’s new 2-motor MY 2014 Accord Hybrid, built with the rest of the Accord lineup in a Honda plant in Marysville, Ohio, will go on sale in the US in October. The two-motor hybrid system, which is paired with a 6-speed automatic transmission, has ...
EPA estimated 48% EV so that sounds about right.
Ford aggregate driver data show its PHEV owners operate in electric mode nearly 60% of the time
Ford plug-in hybrid owners are operating in electric mode nearly 60% of the time, according to new aggregate data collected from Ford’s MyFord Mobile app. MyFord Mobile is available on Ford’s plug-in (PHEV) and battery-electric (BEV) vehicles, Fusion Energi, C-MAX Energi and Focus Electric, a...
Great to see the ball rolling on this. Toyota, Hyundai and a few others are aiming 2015 for the release of their FCVs.
How about the plan to increase the hydrogen stations?
DOE seeking input on proposed automotive fuel cell cost and durability targets
The US Department of Energy (DOE) is issuing a Request for Information (RFI) (DE-FOA-0000855) seeking input from stakeholders on proposed cost targets for fuel cells designed for automotive applications. The purpose of this RFI is to solicit feedback from developers, manufacturers, end users, a...
Since it generates electricity and provides hot water, you'll need to subtract the cost of a traditional water heater before calculating the payback. Natural gas water heater is like $500, nonetheless.
It looks like the last gen unit has max output of 1kW.
http://www.tokyo-gas.co.jp/tgminutes/64.pdf
Tokyo Gas and Panasonic launch new, smaller, lower-cost Ene-Farm home fuel cell co-generation system
Tokyo Gas Co., Ltd. and Panasonic Corporation have jointly developed a new smaller, lower-cost version of the Ene-Farm home fuel cell co-generation system. Panasonic manufactures the fuel cell unit and supplies it to Tokyo Gas in combination with a hot water unit and backup heat source produced...
Yes PiP has 4.4kWh (energy) Li-ion battery and it can discharge 41kW (power). 1.31kWh (energy) NiMH in a regular Prius can discharge 27kW (power). If PiP has 4.4kWh NiMH, it should be able to discharge 91kW but then it'll be much heavier. Anyway, PiP lithium battery is tuned to balance the required power and energy density for specific application.
Another thing to look at is the regen. PiP can absort 31kW (max) when SOC is around 50%. When it is fully charged, it can regen only 10 kW.
NiMH HV battery can capture more regen energy (relative to the battery size). For the hybrids NiMH is hard to beat.
Lexus unveils new IS sport sedan and first-ever IS hybrid; IS 300h targeting 217 hp and 55 mpg US
Lexus IS F SPORT onstage at the Detroit Auto Show. Click to enlarge. Lexus unveiled the all-new 2014 IS sport sedan at the North American International Auto Show. IS will be available in rear- and all-weather drive versions of the IS 250 and IS 350; in a hybrid version, the 300h, for Europe...
@Kelly - Hybrids need high power cells. Prius has 168 battery cells that makes 27 kW power.
EVs need high energy cells. Tesla battery pack has over 7,000 cells low power cells to make 310 kW. 168 of those cells would make 7.4 kW power.
For a hybrid, you need a small battery that can charge/discharge at very high rate. NiMh is very good with that and it is very cost competitive.
I wouldn't be surprised if IS300h uses the same NiMh pack as ES300h.
Lexus unveils new IS sport sedan and first-ever IS hybrid; IS 300h targeting 217 hp and 55 mpg US
Lexus IS F SPORT onstage at the Detroit Auto Show. Click to enlarge. Lexus unveiled the all-new 2014 IS sport sedan at the North American International Auto Show. IS will be available in rear- and all-weather drive versions of the IS 250 and IS 350; in a hybrid version, the 300h, for Europe...
Great to hear that Prius PHV had a good start in UK.
Prius PHV top-selling PHEV in UK in 2012 with 470 units
Toyota’s Prius PHV was the best-selling plug-in hybrid (PHEV) in the UK in 2012, achieving 470 sales from its launch date in July 2012 and outselling its nearest rival, the Vauxhall Ampera, despite it being on sale 3 months longer than the Toyota. Overall, the brand sold 12,840 hybrid vehicle...
It should be mentioned that PiP went on sale late March, 2012 and it was available only in the launch states.
Volt and Leaf have been available nation wide.
GM and Nissan lead in US plug-in sales in December; GM and Toyota for the year
2012 US sales of plug-in vehicles by major OEMs. Click to enlarge. GM was the US sales leader among the major OEMs for plug-in vehicles in December, and for 2012. GM sold 2,633 units of the Volt extended range electric vehicle in December, up 72.2% by volume from 1,529 units in December 2011...
Bob, natural gas is fossil fuel. It is a lit cleaner than coal.
PiP is the cleanest PHEV, per EPA beyond tailpipe emission site. It is the only plugin hybrid with a flat cargo floor and 5 seats.
I have it for about two months and I have been averaging 264 Wh/mi (128 MPGe) on electric miles (charging loss included) and 55 MPG on gas miles.
It is amazingly efficient and I am thrilled with getting those numbers in a midsize.
Ford Fusion Energi plug-in hybrid sedan EPA-rated at 108 MPGe city, 92 MPGe highway and 100 MPGe combined; Ford projects best hybrid sales quarter ever
2013 Fusion Energi. Click to enlarge. The US Environmental Protection Agency has rated the new Fusion Energi plug-in hybrid (earlier post) at up to 108 MPGe city, 92 MPGe highway and 100 MPGe combined (2.2, 2.6 and 2.4 l/100km-equivalent, respectively). Fusion Energi is the Ford brand’s f...
Per GM's ticker, about 62% are on EV. I wonder what caused the discrepancy.
Any word on how many kWh was used for 100 million miles?
http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.html
Volt drivers collectively log more than 100M all-electric miles since sales launch
Chevrolet announced that Volt owners collectively have driven more than 100 million all-electric miles since the vehicle went on sale two years ago this month. The average Volt owner travels more than 65% of the time in pure electric mode as the car was designed, only using the gasoline-powered...
I purchased my PiP in October. So far I am averaging 258 wh/mi on electricity (charging loss included) and 54 MPG on gas.
34% of my miles are on EV and 66% on HV (gas). Since majority of my trips are short, they are driven on EV and I am getting about 12 miles per charge (3 hours).
Ford sold 1,259 C-MAX Energi plug-in hybrids, 179 Focus Electrics in November
Ford reported selling 1,259 units of the C-MACX Energi plug-in hybrid in November, with cumulative sales of 1,403 units including 144 units from October, when the vehicle went on sale. Ford also reported its best month yet for the Focus Electric, with 172 units sold, bring the total for the yea...
Right. It has to be engineered to ensure durability and reliability to sell in all states.
As for EV, I think they will sell more if they are required to have the same warrenty as hybrid battery.
EnerDel announces 3-year product warranty on all its standard Li-ion packs and systems
Li-ion battery and systems manufacturer EnerDel, Inc. is now offering a full three-year product warranty on all of its standard packs and systems. EnerDel manufactures lithium-ion batteries and energy storage systems for electric utility, transportation and industrial applications. In addition t...
These are surely not automotive grade which requires 10 years warranty.
EnerDel announces 3-year product warranty on all its standard Li-ion packs and systems
Li-ion battery and systems manufacturer EnerDel, Inc. is now offering a full three-year product warranty on all of its standard packs and systems. EnerDel manufactures lithium-ion batteries and energy storage systems for electric utility, transportation and industrial applications. In addition t...
It is obvious that Kit P has never driven a Prius. A closer comparison is the Matrix, which starts around $20k comparably equipped.
CMU study finds small battery PHEVs and gasoline hybrids the least-cost policy solution to reducing gasoline consumption
Comparison of current federal subsidy to base case assumptions showing lifetime fuel savings (HomeEve charging scenario). An EPA estimate based on the Chevy Volt’s reported efficiency is also included for comparison. The federal subsidy significantly favors larger battery packs to a stronger...
Yes, really Kit P. I saved all my gas receipts. 53 MPG was my personal real world data measured at the pump.
You should go test drive a hybrid instead of relying on the internet misinformation. Hybrids do get great mileage even on the highway.
You are right that not all PHEV reduce CO2 emission. For example, EPA rated the compact Volt at 260 g/mi which is an increase from a regular midsize Prius (222 g/mi). A well designed PHEV like Prius plugin (with optimal battery size) lowers the CO2 beyond a regular Prius can achieve.
EPA includes PM, NOX, CO and other emissions and convert them to CO2 equivalent to derive their CO2 figures. It is not just the emission from the tailpipe. They include fuel production as well so the upstream emission is included.
Jetta TDI wagon auto is rated 390 g/mi.
CMU study finds small battery PHEVs and gasoline hybrids the least-cost policy solution to reducing gasoline consumption
Comparison of current federal subsidy to base case assumptions showing lifetime fuel savings (HomeEve charging scenario). An EPA estimate based on the Chevy Volt’s reported efficiency is also included for comparison. The federal subsidy significantly favors larger battery packs to a stronger...
@Kit P - In case you are not aware, modern diesel cars void warranty if you use 100% biodiesel. VW limits to B15 under warranty. These modern diesel emission system also need regular maintenance.
Having said that, any technology that saves petroleum and reduce emission should get its own fair share of incentive.
CMU study finds small battery PHEVs and gasoline hybrids the least-cost policy solution to reducing gasoline consumption
Comparison of current federal subsidy to base case assumptions showing lifetime fuel savings (HomeEve charging scenario). An EPA estimate based on the Chevy Volt’s reported efficiency is also included for comparison. The federal subsidy significantly favors larger battery packs to a stronger...
@Kit P - Regarding your other comment... Combining trips and living closer are common sense and people do that if the choice is available. There are other things to consider in the entire quality of life equation.
Emission is a global issue so it does not matter where you live. 25-30 MPG in city driving is unacceptable by my standard. My Prius PHV can drive 190 miles with a gallon of diesel equivalent electricity. On the highway, I use the gas engine and have been getting 55 MPG.
Using the fuels that is superior in different driving conditions is what the hybrid synergy drive is all about.
CMU study finds small battery PHEVs and gasoline hybrids the least-cost policy solution to reducing gasoline consumption
Comparison of current federal subsidy to base case assumptions showing lifetime fuel savings (HomeEve charging scenario). An EPA estimate based on the Chevy Volt’s reported efficiency is also included for comparison. The federal subsidy significantly favors larger battery packs to a stronger...
@Kit P - In my old commute (mostly highway), 2006 Prius served me well with average 53 MPG. It still has the original brake pads and the original traction battery required no maintence.
I think you and I are on the same page, together with the author. The incentive needs to aim at the goal and not a specific technology (battery size). Diesel and regular hybrid also save gas and there are no incentive. Yet we are spending $4.5 per gallon in a compact 4 seater Volt.
Check my posts on priuschat to understand my position better.
CMU study finds small battery PHEVs and gasoline hybrids the least-cost policy solution to reducing gasoline consumption
Comparison of current federal subsidy to base case assumptions showing lifetime fuel savings (HomeEve charging scenario). An EPA estimate based on the Chevy Volt’s reported efficiency is also included for comparison. The federal subsidy significantly favors larger battery packs to a stronger...
@Kit P - I used to have a long commute and put 30k miles a year (for 5.5 years). 2006 Prius has 164,000 miles and my brother bought it from me to replace his truck.
Now, majority of my trips are very short. A regular Prius doesn't get great mileage due to the initial warmup. Plugin Prius addressed it by allowing me to drive those frequent trips in EV.
When I make long distance trips in the weekend, the gas engine is still rated at 50 MPG despite the 150 lbs extra weight.
So, using electricity for short frequent trips and the most efficient gas engine for long trips, I am able to get the best of both worlds.
Yes, I am using $2,500 tax payer money but every $1.25 will save the nation a gallon of gas (per the paper above). Pretty good bang for the buck.
I have 416 miles on it now. 30% on EV and 70% on HV (gas). The car is reporting 80 MPG with 25 kWh of electricity used.
Per EPA, I have lowered my emission from 222 gram of CO2 per mile to 190 g/mi. The Prius PHV drives better and the gas engine shutdowns are so smooth. It is an upgrade I am extremely satisfy of.
I understand your criticism and I think it should be directed toward Volt. It uses $7,500 tax payer money and every $4.5 saves a gallon. It is also heavier than the Equinox SUV.
CMU study finds small battery PHEVs and gasoline hybrids the least-cost policy solution to reducing gasoline consumption
Comparison of current federal subsidy to base case assumptions showing lifetime fuel savings (HomeEve charging scenario). An EPA estimate based on the Chevy Volt’s reported efficiency is also included for comparison. The federal subsidy significantly favors larger battery packs to a stronger...
It is like Honda IMA with a clutch. Instead of using CVT, they are using DSG.
Volkswagen targeting 5% of Jetta sales in US with new sporty Hybrid model; expected 45 mpg combined
The 2013 Jetta Hybrid. Click to enlarge. Volkswagen is holding media drive events this week for the sporty new 2013 Jetta Turbo Hybrid (earlier post), which features the second version of a Volkswagen gasoline-electric hybrid drive system: a 1.4L turbocharged EA211 engine; a hybrid module f...
Common sense would say the bigger battery would save more gas.
However, if you put cost into the equation, $4.5 per gallon saved by 16kWh plugin hybrid is not saving at all.
By keeping the plugin battery small and maintain 50 MPG gas engine, every gallon saved cost just $1.25.
The effect of the bang for the buck is counterintuitive.
CMU study finds small battery PHEVs and gasoline hybrids the least-cost policy solution to reducing gasoline consumption
Comparison of current federal subsidy to base case assumptions showing lifetime fuel savings (HomeEve charging scenario). An EPA estimate based on the Chevy Volt’s reported efficiency is also included for comparison. The federal subsidy significantly favors larger battery packs to a stronger...
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