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Thomas Pedersen
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Hey E-P, Check out this presentation about ammonia production. I'm not a chemistry major myself, but I know the author and he is serious. The whole company is serious!
E-P, Yes, by simple analysis. However, if/when wind and solar are to supply all of the primary energy, the average load will be 3-4 times the current electricity production. In other words, wind and solar will produce more than 'current, uninterruptible' power consumption. Now, some hierarchy of P2X consumers will establish, based on their CAPEX/OPEX ratio. Nobody believes this is possible in strict competition with fossil fuels any time soon, so getting Denmark off of fossil fuels and on to electricity + electrofuels will require either subsidies - like wind and solar has enjoyed until last year - or 'artificial markets', such as minimum requirement for drop-in fuel in jet-fuel and/or gasoline and diesel. For Denmark: Aviation fuel: 6,000 MW electrolysis capacity by the same metrics as in the article, assuming some conversion efficiency from hydrogen to jet fuel. Gasoline: 9,000 MW Diesel: 18,000 MW Current average electricity consumption: approx 3,500 MW I do not believe we can find the room for enough wind and solar to replace current gasoline and diesel with electrofuels, let alone find non-fossil carbon sources for it. Priority should be given to long distance flights. The 'new' element in this project is to drive the electrolysers directly from wind turbines, rather than the grid. Generally, behind-the-meter power costs about one third than grid power - even less if you're a private consumer and also pay both electricity tax and VAT (on top of all the others). Transporting as much wind and solar power through the electricity grid as I mentioned above would require very costly expansion of the power grid. Thus the consensus among the big players around the North Sea is that most of the electricity from all those extra wind turbines should not touch the grid before it gets used to produce hydrogen. PS: New off-shore wind farms around Denmark operate at about 60% average capacity.
Only 30% NOx reduction? Count me unimpressed! Seeing as conventional marine diesel engines are tuned for maximum efficiency = high NOx, I would have thought they could do better. Not least considering how NOx was their downfall in the US. It's a quite simple operation to install a catalyst using AddBlue on a ship (much, much simpler than in a car, which is why VW and Mercedes both spent €1-2 billion to do so) and routinely achieve >90% reduction.
Quite clever implementation of hydrogen tanks :-) Compact and allows escaping hydrogen to vent up and out unimpeded.
In a misguided effort to conserve fuel, I drove almost 6 months with the A/C off, resulting in the gaskets drying out and leaking out the refrigerant. And since R134A has a GWP (global warming potential) of 1400, the re-fill corresponded to about 700 kg of CO2 or 200 kg of diesel. Probably 10-50 times more than I saved. Btw, my compressor is electrically driven. Only if car OEMs accept to have the entire refrigerant circuit mounted as a single unit incl. both heat exchangers, can the unit realistically be completely sealed. I believe welding and soldering of pipes after installation into the engine bay is not something car factories would like to deal with..?
I'd certainly choose nuclear - to protect the environment from both farming and/or solar panels.
"However, it is not allowed in motor gasoline in the USA." That wouldn't have anything to do with a powerful farming lobby, would it?.. Installing solar cells on farm land and converting the power to hydrogen to combine with CO2 from remaining concentrated sources (cement, waste, biomass combustion) could produce an order of magnitude more hydro-carbon fuel per unit area than farming and arguably be less intrusive to nature.
"Does anyone wonder where the free oxygen O2 comes from to form CO2?" No. It comes from photosynthesis in plants. The 21% oxygen (by volume) in the atmosphere is balanced between photosynthesis and spontaneous fires. Increase the oxygen concentration by a single percentage point increases the likelihood of spontaneous fires significantly, and lowering it does the opposite. Above every square meter of the Earth's surface, there are 2,3 metric tonnes of oxygen (O2), totaling 500 billion billion tonnes of free oxygen in the Earth's atmosphere. Contrast that to about 2 thousand billion tonnes of fossil fuels, and you get the picture. Nearly 50% (!!) of the mass of the Earth's crust is made up of oxygen. And oxygen makes up 89% of the mass of the World's oceans. Don't worry, we will not run out of oxygen any time soon.
sd, As mentioned in the article, this battery is only supposed to allow optimised operation of the auxiliary power engines. For this particular application, it really makes sense to build the battery into a container... Once the infrastructure is in place to allow battery power to transmitted to the ship grid, as many batteries as required could be installed by simply adding containers. Sure, a 40' container is quite a large volume for only 6 Tesla batteries. However, boats are more sensitive to fire, so greater precautions need to be taken to avoid that, which often translates into battery types with lower specific energy. We also do not know whether this battery has been configured to be services by walking into it. Finally, the container may not be full but only contain as many cells, as analysis has found to be optimum, from a CAPEX/OPEX perspective. This needs to be tested as well.
I saw similar results from a similar study 15-20 years ago... It's obvious. Just turn on the seat heater in winter and feel how dramatically the comfort increases. Downside, of course, is the back seat passengers - often kids in child seats, i.e. no heating/cooling. But as a means to drive much more efficiently alone, it would be great. I wonder if thermal-electric cooling could do the trick with much less installed equipment. Even at low efficiency, it should require a lot less energy than cooling the entire car.
mahonj, 13 to 30% tax is nothing compared to the 150% value tax (above a certain value) we have in Denmark. On top of that comes 25% VAT on the whole vehicle price, so tax on tax. That's why a three-year old used TDI costs the same here as a new GTI in the UK. However, we can get significant tax rebate (NECD-dependent) for highly fuel efficient cars.
gryf: I only reacted to the comment that motor oil could be generated. As your quote also indicates, the problem with plastic is largely poor waste management, primarily in Asia (especially the Great Pacific Waste Patch). On the face of it, the best possible use of recycled plastic is new plastic. The second best option is synthetic jet fuel, which is one of the few current uses of fossil fuels that cannot be substituted with batteries, or even hydrogen. Jet planes depend so much on the properties of jet fuel (liquid in the whole range of operating pressure and temperature, very high energy density, both gravi- and volumetrically) that it is more efficient to accept a conversion loss from whatever feed stock, because it makes the plane so much more efficient.
Plastic is a great material for a great number of uses. The problems with plastics in the oceans and micro-plastic originate from poor waste management - a problem which has several better solutions than banning plastic. Btw: the Wikipedia article about the Great Pacific Garbage Patch confirms my suspicions coming from observations; that Asian countries are the source of this polution - not the US or Europe where people are wailing about it.
Hopefully, everyone can see that converting plastic bags into motor oil solves nothing! My car uses 320 times as much diesel as motor oil. If, however, the products can be used as substitute feedstock for making 'virgin' plastic, then a proportional amount of fossil fuels have been saved, while eliminating a difficult waste fraction. But what about 'dirty' plastic? Most plastic is polluted with either oils, food or other materials, such as paper/cardboard?
How about those 3D-printed Ti-Al alloys used for the last two stages of modern jet engines. The have about the same properties as nickel-based alloys (tensile strength at those temperatures), but are employed exactly because of their weight savings, which are of course worth much more in a 777 than an automobile. One a side note; transient response of turbo chargers should not be an issue in increasingly hybridized drive trains where even a 48V system can alleviate the 'problem' of turbo lag - either by direct electrical boost or by e-turbo as employed by Audi.
10 miles/kWh = 327 mpg gasoline energy content. Accounting for ICE efficiency that would equate to about 100 mph, which is not far fetched for a vehicle with such low CdA. Remember the VW XL1 was 230 mph on diesel-hybrid (plug-in efficiency).
Good development, but in my opinion too many parts for an ICE that should have as few operating hours as possible in a PHEV. If you cruise several thousand miles per month on the highway, the extra parts to raise efficiency from 40 to 45% may be warranted. But I think an Atkins engine is better than a Millerized, because of the fewer parts and lower cost. Perhaps the perfect PHEV engine is just not interesting enough for anyone to do research on and develop for the market. Perhaps the Mahle engine, which was posted here about a month ago.
Am I just getting too old, or is this the most stupid, non-descriptive promotional video ever?
Take it from someone who believes their future to be in electrofuels (me...): There is not nearly enough non-fossil CO2-sources available to supply more than a small fraction of the automotive fuels. We need nearly all the non-fossil (cement, biomass, waste) CO2 we can reasonably scrounge up for jet fuel and plastics. Because it is highly unlikely that all those point sources become fit with carbon capture or are located in places where it's convenient to transport them to synthetic fuel production sites. Moreover, the electricity-to-mechanical motion efficiency of battery vehicles is 4-7 times higher than electricity-to-gasoline-to-shaft-power, meaning that the cost gap would be insurmountable. Third, the time it takes to construct thousands of those plants would make VW's introduction of the ID.3 seem like the blink of an eye. And I hope no one is suggesting we should keep burning coal to get 'clean' electrofuels?
Methanol and methane have the same ratio of hydrogen energy input to output, i.e. energy efficiency of conversion. But methanol does not have to lose additional 2-digit percentage points of energy for liquefaction. Methanol can be stored in un-insulated tanks of any form (not pressure tanks). Only drawback compared to LNG is lower energy density. However, when including the volume required for insulation of LNG tanks, the system-volumetric-energy-density is probably similar.
Re Power train weight: It probably refers to: ICE+e-motor+gearbox = ICE+gearbox. 207 g/kWh is grams of gasoline, whereas 200 g/kWh in the Irish grid is most likely grams of CO2. 200 g gasoline/kWh = 640 gCO2/kWh. About this ICE: I have been waiting for years for news like this! Some years back, there were lost of news on this site about simple ICEs to be used for series hybrids or range extenders. But in the mean time, most car makers have opted for their most popular (and expensive) ICEs with twin-turbo, cylinder cut-off, variable valve timing, double overhead camshaft, etc. This is what is needed; a simple, inexpensive, not-powerful, Millerized ICE, which depends on a battery to deliver transient performance. And no gearbox, please. Either twin-motor series/lockup, or go for broke and make a car which cannot operate below e.g. 20-30 mph on ICE power (only the final gear). Use the weight a space saved for the gearbox to install more batteries.
About battery replacement: 1) The battery will probably last at least 300 k km. I say that because Tesla offers lifetime guarantee, although I am aware that Tesla partners with Panasonic and VW gets their ID.3 batteries from LG Chem (currently). 2) Battery packs for the MEB platform will have to conform to just a few form factors for millions of cars, creating a wealth of suppliers including for the aftermarket. This ought to drive the cost down. So when we get 250-300 Wh/kg batteries in 8 years (guess), your car is not just a useless lump of expensive metals with an unsaleable battery range. PS: Legislation should be put in place to keep car makers from tying customers to their batteries only. If you have purchased a replacement battery legally, it should be replaceable by an appropriate agent (your regular mechanic...), who also handles the old battery responsibly.
It also offers: - No having to flick on the 'Mobile Hotspot' in your phone settings - Complete instantaneous and logged spying of your driving; speed, acceleration, no. of passengers, etc. - No guarantee that these data will not be sold to 3rd party, such as your insurance company or dubious data harvesters Enjoy :-)
Great. Now stop using the beefed-up starter/generator and use an e-motor integrated in the gearbox and decoupled from the ICE. Then loose 1st gear in the transmission and/or increase overall drive ratio to reduce rpm of the ICE and use the e-motor for all small accelerations, possibly combined with information from nav computer (stay in top gear over a hilltop) and possibly front radar to allow the e-motor to absorb all those little changes in vehicle speed in traffic. I can physically feel the energy lost in the torque converter when starting from zero, and it would be so great to get to 2nd gear speed with the e-motor and engage from there. Also, I daily drive on rolling hills where the gearbox shifts down for <10 sec to climb over a hilltop and I'm sure a lot of energy gets lost there. Especially great, if this energy could be supplied from recuperated brake/coast energy.
"However, I am not holding my breath waiting for this future to arrive." Neither am I. I am actively working on it. The non-power-producing sources of CO2 I can think of to combine with H2 from electrolysis include: - Biogas (the most easily available CO2 source in Denmark) - Cement plants (from calcination proces, CaCO3 -> CaO + CO2) - Waste incineration plants - Steel production - Etc. By my calculations, the amount of carbon emitted from the calcination process - globally - is about twice as much as the amount used for jet fuel - the hardest fossil fuel to replace.