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jake
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"people want to know why an EV, without a gas tank, can burn to ashes in minutes"
There's no fuel, but there's plenty of volatile material in the car (the seats, interior plastics, and wiring). That's the stuff that burns the fastest (in minutes). A short-circuit in the crash can start the fire and then it's a big blaze in minutes. This wouldn't even be news if it happened to a gas car.
Initial details on fiery crash involving BYD e6 that killed 3
China Auto Web. Three passengers in a BYD e6 taxicab, including the driver, were killed in an accident in Shenzhen on 26 May. BYD e6 in flames following crash. Click to enlarge. In its microblog on weibo.com, Shenzhen traffic police say the accident happened at about 3:08 in the early morni...
@wintermane2000
Well, they are still testing the Balqon trucks so EV trucks are not out. Not too convinced about Zebra batteries. They are cheaper but not as good as Li-ion judging from the usage in buses.
Not too sure about the Tyrano. Wasn't too impressed with them during their launch (no details on actual fuel cell specs, like kW output, website light on details). We'll see, I guess.
Port of Los Angeles to Evaluate Vision Industries’ Tyrano Fuel Cell Hybrid Class 8 Trucks
Vision Industries Class 8 zero-emission hydrogen fuel cell hybrid-electric truck at the Port of Los Angeles. (Photo: Business Wire). Click to enlarge. The Port of Los Angeles is entering into negotiations with Los Angeles-based Vision Industries for the purchase and evaluation of Vision’s Tyr...
@jake
Actually scratch that. I was using the estimate for passenger cars: 30mph * 5000 hrs = 150k miles.
An typical AC Transit bus averages 11 mph so: 5000 * 11 = 55k miles. The 2006-2007 evaluation of the AC Transit fuel cell buses operating for 5,765 hours corresponded to 62,191 miles.
I wonder how this operating life translates to passenger cars which have a higher average speed and different power demands. These buses seem to be hybrid buses and has a fairly large battery pack in it (only a few kwh less than the one on the Tesla Roadster), which probably aids the fuel cell's operating life.
UTC Power Attains 5,000-Hour Durability Milestone With Transit Bus Fuel Cell System
A PureMotion system in a bus. Source: UTC. Click to enlarge. UTC Power, a United Technologies Corp. company, announced that one of its latest generation PureMotion Model 120 fuel cell powerplants for hybrid-electric transit buses has surpassed 5,000 operating hours in real-world service with ...
5000 hours translates to about 150k miles which is pretty good in terms of durability, esp for a fuel cell.
Buses cost more so they can more readily absorb the extra costs of a fuel cell.
I ride AC Transit regularly so I probably have seen this bus around a couple of times already, though I haven't ridden in one before.
UTC Power Attains 5,000-Hour Durability Milestone With Transit Bus Fuel Cell System
A PureMotion system in a bus. Source: UTC. Click to enlarge. UTC Power, a United Technologies Corp. company, announced that one of its latest generation PureMotion Model 120 fuel cell powerplants for hybrid-electric transit buses has surpassed 5,000 operating hours in real-world service with ...
Sometimes I don't know if the best thing to do is to ignore them or to respond. Anyways on the CRU emails themselves, there are things that deserve investigating (like the Freedom of Information requests) but as for it being "climategate" or changing any fundamental conclusions about global warming, I don't see it. As far as I know, the emails are mostly being held up by the right wing for political reasons. There are a couple of analogies to be made, such as what was done by the tobacco industry or the "debate" on evolution vs intelligent design.
I guess it does relate with Copenhagen though. Any meaningful commitment by the US is unlikely since right now we are still fighting over politics. China's commitment is also quite lukewarm. Maybe things will get better, but it seems unlikely.
Devil in the Details: World Leaders Scramble To Salvage and Shape Copenhagen’s UNFCCC Climate Summit
by Jack Rosebro With little more than a week left before the 15th Congress of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) convenes in Copenhagen, and following months of increasing doubt that international agreement can be realized on a binding emissions reduction plan to ...
@ToppaTom
I don't think they really even gave EVs much of a chance. The Prius had slow sales initially too, but they eventually reached the second gen model (2nd gen for the US), it started picking up, and now it's a fairly popular car.
Of course it is true the costs for EVs are very expensive (much more expensive than hybrids, and they still are expensive) so that is probably why they were so quick to end the programs and I don't think any of the automakers voluntarily wanted to build EVs. That and automakers are unsure about the reception of a plug-in vehicle: it's too big a departure from traditional fueling. It's just too much of a risk for them (Honda and Toyota still seems to see it this way).
As for what time the public perception shifted for EVs? I don't think the Prius played much of a role. It's a hybrid and automakers emphasized that you didn't have to plug it in. The Prius is just a more efficient gas car. It didn't make anyone want a car that could plug-in..
I think the Tesla Roadster played a much bigger role. It's the first EV to greatly top the ~100 miles that all the automakers say EVs are limited to and the probably the first EV most people know about (it was the car that got me interested in EVs). Even GM says they were inspired: if such a small company can build something like that, why can't a large automaker? This was what led to the Volt (which also played a big role in changing perceptions about plug-ins by introducing the "range extender" idea). I think "Who killed the Electric Car" played a big role too in bringing EVs into mainstream perception (it especially made the EV1 well known and probably also pushed GM to develop the Volt to fight the backlash).
Report: Honda To Debut Electric Car In US By 2015
The Nikkei reports that Honda Motor Co. will introduce battery electric vehicles in the US market in the first half of the next decade. A similar report came from Kyodo News. Honda will reportedly unveil a prototype of the minicar-sized EV at the Tokyo Motor Show in October. Of the big Japanes...
I generally agree that judging by hybrid sales, phev adoption will likely be a slow progress. Of course it's hard to predict the future and if consumer tastes will change.
Of course, if gas prices get back to $4-5 then that's when you see many people in the US all of the sudden willing to look at alternatives (ie last summer with people ditching SUVs and getting smaller cars even when in reality if you do the calculations it doesn't necessarily make the most economic sense). And the wildcard with plug-ins is the new experience of plugging in and also the still inexpensive electricity. I guess we'll see how the consumers respond when the plug-ins actually come out.
Report: Toyota To Start Commercial Production of Plug-In Hybrids In 2012
The Nikkei reports that Toyota Motor Corp. plans to begin commercial production in 2012 of plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs). Output for the first year is estimated at 20,000 to 30,000 units. The plug-ins will use Li-ion batteries produced by Toyota’s joint venture with Panasonic Corp., P...
@wintermane2000
"H2 ice cars do manage to get into the zev catagory which is all they needed to do to win a spot mid term."
I think they have the "silver+" spot, so it's the same level with PHEVs, but there's relatively little development for hydrogen ICE. The only one I see promising for a decent amount of volume is the Mazda Premacy. I'm pretty sure PHEVs will still be the ones in the most volume, they seem to be the most cost effective and practical out of all the ZEV options (though if Ford really comes out with a ~$30k BEV Focus and/or if Nissan really comes out with a Cube-sized ~$20-30k BEV with ~100 miles of range then it starts becoming a harder choice).
A F-CELL A-Class getting over 100k miles is pretty decent. Maybe they will be able to hit the 150k milestone in the future.
California-to-Canada Road Tour is Finale for Daimler’s A-Class F-CELL; B-Class F-CELL Due to Customers by End of 2009
A cutaway model of the future B-Class F-CELL. Click to enlarge. Daimler’s A-Class F-CELL hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle will cap five years of road trials in the US with its participation in the California to Canada Hydrogen Road Tour 09 (earlier post). The recently converted A-Class F-CELL “plus”...
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