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A.T.
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John0. Good god, you can't be serious, sir ? Whatever next !
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We know what goes on in Parliament via Hansard. EU Council meetings are held in secret, so we don't actualy know what went on. [Just one one of many ways that the EU weakens democracy] Cameron did not give much of an account to Parliament. He evaded Milliband's question about "what treaty" by refering to Merkel's letter. Sorry - he didn't claim that he had refused to countersign Merkel's letter, he claimed that had "vetoed a treay that was on the table". Thereis a vast amount of opinions and speculation, but what actually happened ?
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Mr. Noordhoek, I have read your article looking for any substance. The nearest I can get is that it was bad PR for Cameron to be supporting bankers. As for worrying aout who we have or haven't impressed, and which group we are now not part of, you simply don't understand the point. We.Don't.Care. We've had enough of the shambles that is the EU and the less entangled we are with you the better.
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You're completely correct - for now. Which is why the Stability Union label was used. But ... let's wait and see. At some point Germany will have to cough up, or the euro dies.
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Good. I posted on an earlier thread that it will take a couple of days to understand things, and answers to these sorts of questions are key. BTW, has Cameron actually wielded a veto !? The "STATEMENT BY THE EURO AREA HEADS OF STATE OR GOVERNMENT" says that whilst they are going down the IG route [repeating myself, given timescales, did they have a choice. Merkozy was talking the IG route prior to their meeting] they state "the objective remains to incorporate these provisions into the treaties of the Union as soon as possible" Huuum..
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It'll be a couple of days, minimum before there is enough de-spun information to know what this really means. For a start, I think it was always going to be the IG route. The financial crisis is moving too fast for them to wait for a referendum in Ireland, for example. What has Cameron gained ? Is the Tobin tax off the agenda ? AFAIK, regulation of the city remains an EU competence ?
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Mary Ellen Synon, quoting a Brussels diplomat " the British are being 'much more conciliatory behind closed doors.' "
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It's all decided, and Sarkozy-Merkel have just gone public. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/full-letter-merkozy-von-rompuy#comments Read it, folks. Cameron is just huffing and puffing for domestic consuption.
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That's "repatriation". It's off the agenda.
Toggle Commented Dec 7, 2011 on Beware of the dark arts at thetorydiary
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OK - have I understood this correctly ? The EU decides it want 2 things - to regulate London's financial industry to death and a power grab in the eurozone. Cameron's negotiation stance has changed from teh promised repatriation of powers - i.e. "you give us some of what we want and we'll give you what you want", to "promise you won't threaten us and we'll give you what you want". Awesome. Then again, many of us said at the start the renegotiation was a mirage.
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Why did they remain in the party when he refused it the first time ?
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Actually, I for one do care a damn about these things. The problem is that the damage has already been done. Much of it in the name of the euro, which was set up for political reasons, not sound economic ones. Heck - we have even just had Delors belately admit that. What matters now is 1. Where do the losses fall 2. Does the EU carry on with the same flaws in place 3. How much more democracy is lost along the way (think Greece etc.)
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The UK should not be funding the EZ bailouts, either through the IMF or other mechanisms. Stick to that, and decisions are easy. If the rules are restricted to the eurozone, then let them do whatever they want - none of our business. If new rules are EU wide (not just EZ) then the answer is no. Or was Cameron's veto promise another cast iron moment ?
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If we wished to "repatriate powers" we could take them back unilaterally today. And with every moral justification considering the deceptions and the lack of democratic endorsement in the ceding of those power in the first place. That's not the issue. The issue is populating Westminster with MPs who consider it vital that we do so.
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A concrete plan to deal with EU health and Safety Regulations.... Bury them under several feet of concrete.
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EU enlargement created prosperity http://www.livestream.com/stopcarteltvgr?utm_source=lsplayer&utm_medium=embed&utm_campaign=footerlinks I'll stop there, as anything else I type would be more suited to the late lamented Devil's Kitchen blog.
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Wrong, wrong, completely wrong. The fundamental problems with the productive sections of our ecomony pre-date "the banking crisis". Excessive regulation, punative tax levels and non-level playing fields with international competitors. Unless you put these things right, the commercial case for loans to companies is very limited.
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Pretty much agree, Phil. But I think it is less to do with re-election, and more that the career politicians have neither the mental capacity nor the intent to act outside of the comfort zone of the trans-national decision mechanisms.
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Well, that was the logic for people investing in Greek bonds, and they're now looking at a 50% haircut. The best estimate of the risk of the UK lending to the EZ is given by the market rates for the debt. The UK will be lending at much lower than marlet rates - that's what makes it a bailout - if these countries could raise the cash on the markets they would.
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So what? Voters don't count. The UK will bail out the EZ via the IMF.
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Why should any other countries receive aid from the British tax payer? There are charities available for discretionary contributions from those who can afford this.
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Chris - in the aftermath of WW2, which is still within living memory, people were dropping dead in the streets of Athens from the effects of starvation. Greek friends tell me they fear a return to those times. How such fears will be expressed politically is less clear.
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"If there is one thing that unites Conservatives it is the desire to win the next general election outright" Well, this may or may not unite Conservative politicians and activists, but as an ex Conservative voter, it's not top of my priority list. After all, what does it matter who wins elections, if they all they do is passively kow-tow to the EU ? OK - it wasn't the Tories, but an example that sums mainstream politicians up to a T for me. In opposition, the LibDems call for a referendum on the EU. When asked to vote on it, they do the opposite. Now let's take the " referendum lock". Magic wheeze, when all the expectations where that you would be safely out of office by the time that son-of-Lisbon was required. Ooops - now what ? Who really expects anything other than retractions of the "promise" ? Pure urine extraction. Industrial scale.
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