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Kaine
Manchester
Oh I wanna live in a brand new Britain...
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To even have been a medical student in 1948 you would have to have been born in 1930, and now be 82. Few of these people are alive let alone part of the discussion.
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So this is another 'no true Scotsman' argument? Can you please explain why under these socialists and liberals from 1945-1970 Britain had higher growth, lower unemployment, less crime and higher life expectancy than the previous century under 'conservatives'? There is the notorious story of the Tory MP proclaiming that the British Empire would fall if we stopped sending children up chimneys. He was right, and a damn good thing too.
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Except the party which has dominated government since the introduction of universal suffrage(ish) in 1918 is the Tory party, largely on women's votes. Counting coalitions, Conservatives have been in government for two thirds of the last century. If we're going in a hand-cart there's one party which has done well over half the pushing!
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That's perfectly true. But the corollary was that they thought unemployment was solved. The concept of generational joblessness would have seemed as bizarre to them as a Britain where the Black Death had returned.
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As a bursary boy of The Manchester Grammar School I agree. I was forever puzzled as to why siding with Attlee and Orwell on this issue meant I kept losing Labour Club elections.
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I first had the idea imparted at a seminar with Selina Todd. (Think she's at St Hilda's now). In short anyone could have been bombed and lost everything. That, combined with the lasting breakdown of class distinctions by conscription and national service, and the relative increase in prosperity of those at the bottom, and rationing, created a situation where class distinctions were at their weakest. You don't have to believe me of course, but I don't see why one would dismiss it out of hand. Nasty prejudice? Well if you say things I didn't. Let's review. My premise- Some men who won medals in wartime would find those very qualities dramatically unsuited for peacetime. Your premise- Malcolm's uncle won a medal. Your conclusion- Malcolm's uncle had qualities dramatically unsuited to peacetime. This is an insult. Kaine is nasty. Do you need me to point out how this doesn't follow? Please don't play the victim Malcolm, it doesn't suit you. Saying that some men who won medals in wartime are the same men who would be locked up in peacetime is hardly revolutionary stuff. Heck, it's the exact same thing as has been stated in this thread by people arguing young ne'er-do-wells would make good soldiers. And no, you don't understand me. My point is that large numbers of people were absorbed onto the dole in the 1980s as British manufacturing declined because this was cheaper and easier than creating the jobs (through direct investment) the skills (through education) or the environment (through monetary policy) to get them back into work. I'm not a conspiracist, I don't allege malice, just incomptence and carelessness.
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Scrooge, if you remember, got his riches by swindling his business partners. He also steadfastly refused to give to charity, puncturing that other myth about how the rich would gladly give of their own free will if the state stopped taxing them. Dickens, as the son of a debtor, lived it. He also worked from being a child and lifted himself out of poverty. He then decided to tell it, and rub the noses of the powerful in what they were allowing to happen. He wanted no child to endure what he had to. That's the difference mate. Your lot see poverty as a sin of the poor, and the odd escapee as proof it's not so bad. Dickens saw it as a sin of the rich, and his duty to help his fellows left behind.
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Sorry leftie, I forgot that doesn't 'go without saying' around here! Step 1, insulate every home in the country. There's a hammer-ready, country-wide job that saves everyone money in the medium term.
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Except the greatest period of social mobility in Britain has been while we have had the welfare state, and has only declined in the last couple of decades, as planks of it have been pulled up behind the baby-boomers. Kudos to your ancestors for surviving Mr Trevelyan's free-market famine BTW.
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Just because I prefer the Saxon word to the French one is no reason to look down at me. And no, I wasn't there. But I'm perfectly willing to accept the writers and historians who say that for 10 years, as a direct result of WWII, the British class system was suspended. But that makes the 1950s the abberation, where all the psychopaths had posthumous VCs and full employment was the name of the game. And parasitism has been a government decision. That it was cheaper to have a proportion of the population idle and 'contained' as you put it, than deal with them. I remember one of my tutors once noting that the young men who lead revolutions spent the 1980s in Glasgow tenements with needles in their arms. So we spent our petro-dollars isolating the losers of decline because it was easier than reskilling them.
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Thank you David. Few compliments mean as much as those from a worthy foe. Feel free to spread the idea about a bit. As one of my mates at Price-Waterhouse Coopers put it, "The partners would all just turn over the books and retire tomorrow."
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Speaking as a socialist (though I prefer Vimto personally) I have no problem with using the vast amount of wasted talent in this country on a whole raft of public work schemes. The social cost of unemployment is too great. However, the free-marketeers on here will disagree, and argue that it is cheaper to have these people on the dole than create the jobs for them. "Bring me the craftsmen, send me the draftsmen, build me a path..."
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I thought you might think I was taking the Michael... My nana actually relates the same stories (she's 63, fast turnover in our family). However, she also tells of not being allowed to go on a school trip, organised by the local vicar, because she was a Catholic. Some things have gotten better.
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I'm so glad that with the potential economic collapse of our biggest trading partner, and youth unemployment at its highest for a generation, our parliamentarians have the time to debate which shrubs we are and aren't allowed to chew on.
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If you are going to cite a scientific paper, might I suggest one in a peer reviewed journal, and not one published on a website that prints such gems as, "Thought is the scientific bridge to God; the beginning state of existence, the root cause and support of energy and mass!"
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Who decides? Again, the majority of single parents were married when their first child was born. If one partner packs up and leaves how is it the fault of the one that stuck around?
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It was a distant planet at the time, just ask Mr Golding. And the Welfare State is the greatest testament to British Liberty ever created, which is why its monuments are everywhere, and the barons' get-out-of-jail-free cards of Magna Carter and the Bill of Rights are forgotten except by Americans. The Welfare State means I have a freedom denied the poor for centuries. The freedom to try, and fail, and dust myself off and try again, because there's a net to catch me if I fall.
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There is no road that leads from the the New Testament to chattel slavery, just as there is no road that leads from the Origin of Species to enforced sterilisation. That does not mean that both have not been cited to defend those acts, merely that they are mistaken.
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The bishops passed the Parliament Act.
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I never cease to be amazed at my fellow believers' ability to read the words of Jesus of Nazareth and determine that the thing he'd really be against in modern society is boys kissing.
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I remain convinced that the banks are too clever to be efficiently regulated. Therefore, the only proper response is to set another group of clever people on them: their accountants. Simply pass into law a rule that any individual or organisation who furnishes information leading to a successful prosecution for fraud or tax evasion is entitled to full costs and a proportion of the principle recovered. At a stroke you make every dodgy transaction ridiculously risky, because someone along the chain will stand to make more money turning you in than they do on keeping quiet.
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Considering it's the taxman who would end up bailing out the savers, swings and roundabouts really.
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You, Julian, George, Dick, Timmy the dog, solving mysteries between macaroons... It's an interesting point though. I'm in my twenties and read Blyton et al when I was younger. The world seemed as far away as any of the fairy stories I read. And I'm just the side before the internet and mobile phones became widespread. I can only imagine the distance between that and the current crop of twelve year olds.
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