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Anti-Kike II
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I apologize for some of my it's close to one AM writing errors below. Thank you Sam for your comments. I am well aware that sometimes I wander in multiple directions. As such, I can understand that you probably did not read my entire post. It was rather here and there wasn't it? I never said that people who weren't Orthodox lacked faith. I said some people have no faith. Aren't most Jews secular these days? And if I (or you) were Orthodox why would I (we) be online at this time? I agree with you that today's Judaism is not likely the same as practiced in ancient times. Surely Reform Judaism has minimal semblance to ancient Judaism. But here's the thing Sam. What source(s) are you using to determine that today's Judaism is different? Name names and book titles. I agree with you but I can't prove whether or not the core of Judaism has changed. I have no sources. I just "think it". But I can highly recommend a book that touches upon this issue in an indirect manner. "Jewish Life in the Middle Ages" by Israel Abrahams. It was published by Cambridge University in the 1890's. Abrahams supports his statements with hundreds of references to Jewish, Christian and secular sources. Highly recommended. Sam, if what you are saying is correct, you then are no better than the rabbis you critique. You're changing things to suit your own whim just like the rabbis unless, I'll repeat it, you can prove the rabbis did make changes, what the changes were, why they did not have authority to do so, and why you do were nowhere then. Are you implying that you are practicing authentic Judaism? I again respectfully request that you provide sources that would support your claim. I think this is requires clarification. Are you saying that you are actually practicing true Judaism ? Or are you saying that no matter if you are an atheist, secular Jew or Satmar, you know that modern Judaism is not authentic? Sam, whether you like it or not, civilized societies play by certain rules. You can't unilaterally decide during a football (soccer) match that a forward can touch the ball with his hands or argue that the decision to use technology to determine whether the ball entered the goal box is not authentic football. My fictional Santa Maria can claim he's Republican but you and I and Bernie Sanders know he's a communist. Sam, there are boundaries. Even if the rabbis of Spinoza's times were "wrong" they were playing by the generally accepted standards for Judaism for that time. So please Sam, humor me and tell me what standard of Judaism are you playing by and where can I learn more about the sources and authority you are using
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I think you are all approaching this menorah debate from the wrong direction. Forget Rambam, Rashi, old coins and other religious perspectives. Now I admit that I am no artist but I think that I think the answer lies in the field of art and design. I respectfully request anyone with artistic background jump ignite into this thread. I just took a closer look at the Chabad version of the menorah and it kinda dawned on me that it would fit in very nicely in the gift shop at Museum of Modern Art. From a purely artistic point of view doesn't the menorah seem a bit too modern? Some (most.) ancient art work was crude but when it came to architecture and ritual objects, the workmanship and instricate details were ornate and often first rate quality. In my opinion, the Chabad Menorah appears very consistent with mid-century modernism. Streamlined. Sleek. Raw. Basic. Simplicity. Functional. This Chabad menorah looks like it belongs outside a home built in the Bauhaus style in Tel Aviv's White City historic district. In my opinion, this menorah design can't be any earlier than the 1920's or 30's
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Really? Y'all REALLY care that much about Spinoza? Who knew? Just out of curiosity, are you also angry about the Jews of Amsterdam who were driven out of their homes leaving behind an estimated 300K of their bretheren slaughtered? OR, If you are so inclined, and I imagine some of you are, do you share the frustration of the ethnic Dutch whose country was invaded by Jews? You think Spinoza was a role model for Christians? Hey, I'm hypercritical of Orthodoxy like the lot of you but let's be fair. You choose not to "believe" does not mean that everyone who does must play by your rules. If a religion--in this case Judaism--has certain standards who are we to dispute issues of faith especially for those of you who have no faith. How does Spinoza's excommunication affect you. What about Martin Luther's rejection by the Pope. Are you distressed over that too? Let's give this issue a modern twist. Please bare (bear?) with me here. Say Christopher Jesus Santa Maria was running for President of the United States. He insists that he is a Republican and has support of a number of Republicans. Santa Maria has stated that he believes that the federal government should expand its welfare system restoring funding to 1960's--1970's levels (adjusted for inflation of course.) He clearly stated at an anti-Israel rally that he is in favor of letting in ALL the Middle Eastern refugees (even those who already entered Europe) into the USA, grant them instant citizenship, give them welfare, Medicaid, and allow them to create caliphate where Sharia Law will take precidence over civil law EVEN in cases involving Christian Aryan's. Santa Maria believes in big government, raising taxes of all who earn more than $30K a year,100% integration of all schools, increasing the immigration quota for non-whites to 98% a year and promises that at least 90% of all his appointments will be female, black, Hispanic, or Asian. Santa Maria also believes government should nationalize most industries and res distribute the wealth. Now, Mr. Santa Maria can call himself a Republican. As I stated above, there even are some Republican's who call him a Republican. But there is a problem. Mainstream Republican's like Trump, Bush, Carson, Christie, etc. have publically accused Santa Maria of not being a Republican. Even Sanders exclaimed "Holy crap! And I thought that I was a socialist!" Do you see from this example why the herem can not be recinded? It does not matter what YOU or I feel about Judaism. Spinoza had a right to his philosophy but NO right to change or alter Judaism. A heretic is a heretic. Santa Maria can claim he is a Republican but his views most certainly ain't Republican are they? Our friend Chris is a communist no matter what spin (oza, ha ha ha) you want to put on it. How can he be accepted as the Republican candidate? Why would ANYONE be shocked, offended , angered, outraged, pissed off if he was booted out of the Republican Party? Why the fuck is anyone angry at those fucking Haredim for ex-communicating a heretic five centuries ago? I dare you. No I double dare you. No I infinity dare those of you who are so inclined to criticize to be a wee bit more specific and clearly state why you believe the excommunication was unjust to begin with. Why do you believe Spinoza's beliefs were absolutely compatible with Judaism? Is Santa Maria's platform compatible with Conservativism? By the way, does any one know if Christians accepted Baruch's philosophy.? How about Muslims? How about Odins or Druids? In other words, which religions accepted Spinoza? Thank you for the opportunity for my indulgence.
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Editing error above. Also, To elaborate the above New York Times article, Google Roman DNA research. The research was conducted at a British university. I forget which one.
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Although the poster above appears to be confusing Romani (Gypsies) with Romans (Italia), it is documented in Josepheus's "Wars of the Jews" that a mass conversion of Roman pagans to Judaism did take place at or near the first century common era. Now for something completely different. Monty Python's 1979 film "Life of Brian", was a comedy chronicling the life of Brian a Judean accidentally mistaken for Jesus. When Brian discovered his mum was a harlot (caught her servicing a Roman soldier) and abeing told that his father was not Mr. Cohen and that he was indeed half Roman Brian responded: "I'm not a Roman mum, I'm a kike, a yid, a heebie, a hook-nose, I'm kosher mum, I'm a Red Sea pedestrian, and proud of it!" It seems that both Josephus and Brian's mum (Goku above as well) even if for a different reason) were vindicated. Turns out that Ashkenazi are as high as 80% Roman on their Yiddishe Mamie's side: Brian: I'm not a roman mum, I'm a kike, a yid, a heebie, a hook-nose, I'm kosher mum, I'm a Red Sea pedestrian, and proud of it! there did indeed http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/science/ashkenazi-origins-may-be-with-european-women-study-finds.html
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Sorry, I meant to address my last comment to @BelzerYelzer.
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Thank you @Baal Shem Tov HaSheni for your insightful response. Maybe we should take a more secular approach to the situation @BelzerYelzer. In GENERAL, it has been accepted that countries that conquer land during a war--whether as aggressor or defender-- keeps the land. There may be some degree of protest or disagreement but most nations simply recognize the annexation. Northern Ireland is a classic example. Do the Arab nations not consider her part of the United Kingdom? Of course there are exceptions. The USA did not dispute the former Soviet Union's seizure and incorporation of Ukraine, Bellarus, Lithuania, etc. Neither did the leaders of the Arab world. Only Estonia and Latvia were considered illegally annexed, at least by the USA. . Even the recently annexed Crimeia by Russia no longer makes headlines. So Baal Shem, Israel has the right to Israel proper and the seized West Bank by international standards.
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I'm not 100% certain but I may have cut a modest check to these guys as a donation for Rosh Ha Shannah.
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I've frequently asked my frum friends how can they trust that their children are being taught true Torah values if the Rosh yeshiva was arrested for fraud. They all deny that the dishonesty trickles down to the classroom.
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@shvantz. There probably is a wall between the Hsaids and Hispanics who work at B & H. My guess is that the Hasidm work mainly at the retail store. The majority of Hispanics likely work in the warehouse in Queens. I personally have always had a positive experience at B & H. They are highly rated by consumer magazines and photography professionals. I am almost certain they are the largest camera store outside Japan. During the 1970's and 1980's, New York City camera shops had a notorious reputation for illegal wheeling and dealings. Bait-and-switch, no return policy, striping boxes of the accessories and charging extra, etc. unfortunately, many of the camera/electronics stores involved were Hasidim. Some were Sephardim. Many were not Jewish at all. The entire industry was mostly dishonest. B & H has built a good reputation, RELATIVE to many of their competitors. Interestingly, some twenty or so years ago their ads highlighted all the schtick (see above) that they don't do. Of course that. doesn't mean they don't do other schtick.
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@skylar. Are you certain no warnings were issued? Are you sure that there were no violations deserving of the penalty. It wa sonny a few years ago that a well known poultry processing plant in Rockland County, New York was fined for numerous violations including environmental impact. Agents attempted to gain entry to the plant for a number of years, they just didn't show up. The company was given a small fine (I think) and moved to a nearby site, thus addressing the environmental charges. I suppose certain Orthodox Jews can't understand how there could be a problem as long as the animals are shekhted correctly.
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@noname. I agree with you Nona. MO teens are far more in tune with the cultural fads of the day.
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@skepticfrum. If the earth is not 5776 years old, how old is it? Millions of years old? Billions of years old? Not very scientific. Don't scientists use a standard error of measurement of no greater than +/- 5%? At least Judaism is more specific in dating the earth. Even with all the scientific "facts" and all the technology, scientists can't even come close to dating the earth. Just saying.
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1. Elliot, drawing up and changing district lines happens all the time. In New York City it is usually done to benefit non-whites. 2. Haredim truly believe that government cannot protect them, only God can. They truly believe that with God, there is no fear that said schools would burn down. Only a heretic would question the safety of a building protected by Hashem. 3. Do any of you REALLY care about these people or what happens to them? If so, what's?
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Why do you need to shout Dayan Paddy Power? I found Judaism ten years ago. Admittedly I did not go 100%, but. I kept kosher, observed Shabbat and was active in my synagogue. I now stand conflicted. After spending about five years as a member of the board of directors and an officer of an Orthodox synagogue lead by a Chabad rabbi, I saw and experienced things that continue to make me wonder what is Judaism REALLY about. You see, when you are 100% connected with the outside world, you see first hand the hostile world of the "others" BUT, you also find many to be even more ethical than some Jews are. In addition, you refine Jewish adversarial thinking--as in "on the other hand"--and begin to see all the schtick that goes on in the forum world. Yes, the frum are correct in banning technology to shield themselves from all evil out there. I now know another reason: the rabbis also want to shield people from the truth about the evil that exists within the frum world. Matisyahu aparently found out the truth. Sadly, the rabbis were up in arms from the very first note, Unfortunately Matisyahu--whose music, by the way, I never really could get into--only had a short run on the charts. I guess the rabbis were upset because it gave Modern Orthodox teens a reprieve from Miami Boys Choir and Avraham Fried and decided enough is enough. Loshon Hara about Matisyahu started almost from the beginning. If I am correct, Matisyahu had enough secular in him to realize the truth and decided to run. That does not make him less of a Jew. Although I tend to agree that failedmessiah.com does attract many self hating Jews as well as visitors from stormfront.org, I do applaud the fact that it is one of the few sources that reports on the behaviors that drive Jews like Matisyahu (and me) away from Judaism. Thus my nomclature, I hate Jews who fuel anti-Semitism. Both frumsters who act inappropriately AND left-wingers. Both groups want to rape my freedoms under the assumption that only "they" have the answers to life.
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I agree with the rabbi in theory. Those who believe that Rabbi Ashkenazi should not go public with his remarks fail to understand the concept of freedom of speech. The only thing is that such comments coming from a rabbi draws more attention to the statement. In addition, Rabbi Ashkenazi might be overlooking implications for banning the hiring of Arabs as construction workers. Is it possible such action would elicit more hostility? I imagine taking away the livelihood of Arab workers could backfire. I always wondered why Jews hired Arabs as construction workers as it pertains to fear of purposeful slipshod workmanship. Frankly, I don't have any idea whether or not this has ever been a concern to Israeli Jews nor am I awake of any evidence of building fiascos considered to be sabotage.
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A black left-winger that is
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In case you are unaware, New York City's white, liberal mayor is married to a black lesbian who claims she is now heterosexual. Apparently it is not only right wingers who believe in conversion.
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Admittedly, I have not read the report but perhaps the social unrest will come from outside the Haredi community by people who will no longer tolerate or contain their resentment at the number of welfare receipiants. In addition, how much longer will Haredi youth-especially teens--tolerate the below poverty level life style?
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This Justin Schwartz is another Hitler, y'makh shmo. He's a nazi and anti-Semite. If he was a real Jew, he would not be working. He would be learning. That's why he attacks the yeshivas. He feels guilty. He knows he should be there learning.
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There is no legitimizing Hitler's genocide against Jews (and the five million NON-JEWS) who were murdered during World War II. That does not mean that there weren't antecedents that fueled the fire of hate. The following is a poorly and impulsively written comment. Suppose Hitler loved his culture and people just like Jews love theirs? Suppose Hitler believed that his people were superior same as Jews do? Suppose Hitler believed in genetics to prove the superiority and purity of the Aryan race same as Jews are concerned maintaining their bloodline? Interesting that genetic testing when a shidduch is made is highly utilized within the Orthodox communities of today to identify potential birth defects unique to Ashkenazi's. Hitler was also concerned for hereditary defects. After a humiliating defeat in World War I, an event that had a devastating affect on the Teutonic psyche--remember that Germanic/Nordic people were a war-like people-- the German economy tanked and German people were despondent. The Weimar was imposed upon the German people by the victors of WW I. Jews were very involved in the Weimar Republic. A Jew, Hugo Preuss, authored the Republic's constitution. Jews were also leaders of the German Social Democratic Party. Rosa Luxembourg, a Jewish POLISH national who gained citizenship by marrying a German Jew, became. leaders of the Party. Communism, by the way, was contrary to Germanic values. Germany was now threatened not only by the Communist Russia, lead by a largely disproportionate number of Jews, ravaging her way through Eastern Europe and threatening the German borders, but internally as well by a Communist partly lead by a disproportionately large number of Jews. Never you mind that 50% of German Jews were assimilated and had little connection to Judaism. As with all stereotypes, Jews were viewed as the enemy within and without. Jewish loyalty, as always, was questioned despite Jews joining the armies of their respective nations. Germany and Russia. But with Zionism gaining momentum, it was a very fair question to ask if Jews viewed Palestine as their homeland, why were they in Germany. Jews first or Germans first? I acknowledge that the above does no justice to the topic. Perhaps I will revise to make things clearer
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@Ari. Interesting you used a gun as an example. Are you implying all those po' white trailer trash crackers from 'bama all have guns? I otherwise agree with you that shit like this happens all the time across all demographics. It is just interesting the example you gave.
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........Oy! I forgot! Remember, Torah is truth. Never lose sight of that. The way it is interpreted and over-interpreted is what perverts it. And people who do so for their own gain causing many to stray create a chillul Hashem will most certainly burn for eternity in boiling excrement.
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