Agree on the popularity piece to a certain extent. Conversations for most business do have to develop to a certain level however. I agree that Twitter and Facebook are not great at engagement - they need to funnel people to owned sites and community and play a good role in rebroadcasting content out to large audiences. Dennis - haven't seen the email yet but would love to set up an interview. Cheers..Sean

Thanks for the comments - Buzz, I did have a ramble here and I don't dispute it as an effective listening tool but I think it in combination with a number of other tools, can stoke the customer grapevine of content, word of mouth, support...etc. I really do. The issue is that it is so damn tactical, bastardized and disconnected from the organization, I think it's favour of the week type of stuff or always in beta...the term has lost value to me and ultimately, if it did have a higher meaning, it's been lost. I know for my business - I'm not walking in the front door preaching social media, I'm coming in asking how I can use the much broader palette of grassroots media/marketing to win - in 2009 vernacular, companies don't need social media, they need a winning way to enagage their customers and it appears after a 5 year ride, there is a distinction.

Thanks Chris, I think we’ve cleared that up….as always, you’re on the ball.

Here you go Kate...

Jeremy, I remember reading that story on Church of The Customer and thinking somebody is going to be praying with their rosary that your post didn't get to out of control. I guess #$^$^$ happens (particualrly with Metamucil. David, an excellent idea....I think we have our opening salvo here too... Sean

Measurement - you're right the standards aren't there but there is enough intriguing stuff there that even at this stage, it would rival what advertising, particularly TV and print, can throw up on the board. The great thing is most of this activity happens online and leaves a trail of influence. Plus if a relationship gets established with the campaign participant, you've got a databank of people who you can go back to and register claimed behaviour. Reality is although marketers claim they want metrics, they really want assurance that the stuff won't blow up in their face and they can make a good claim to their seniors that it was money well spent. When it comes down to it, there are very few marketing programs that get adequately measured before the money runs out. Do PR impression adequately measure the impact of your companies PR efforts, hardly, And tell me, have you ever seen a smoking gun analysis between ads and sales. Didn't think so. Yet as Canadian marketers we spend $12 billion every year on faith and some episodic brand equity monitors that it works. Conversely, I have seen some pretty iron clad proof that WOM, ambassadors programs, affiliate program work and yet we're still fighting for acceptance. I think it's less about the metrics and more about the resistant culture that says until more than 50% of my peers are doing it or I get burned for not opening up (i.e. Dell) , i'm not going to. That's why testimonials from big companies (like P&G), case studies, the investment community shining to the online world, senior mgmt. leadership and a generation of executives who grew up with this stuff all likely will play a more impactful role - than any standardized metric system - it provides permission for companies to test their way to success. My two cents anyway.

Eric, I thought bloggers didn't like to scrap amongst themselves....them's fighting words...I like the competitive streak - I might not like to be Isabella Dori, Michael O'Connor Clarke of Jonathan Dunn. cheers, sean

Marc, I agree on your advertisers follow point - i'm not entirely sure if that's a good thing based on the early stuff I'm seeing. Social networks beg a different commercial exploitation model that is more application and engagement driven and asks how can we improve your experience - unfortunately I'm seeing a lot of how can I clutter and steer your experience...early days though. On the move to consumer vs. ad-supported media - I see it as a blurred effect - yes it recognizes digital is growing and that YouTube has become essentially the better, more social Tv experience for online. But social networks, social media and user-generated media are all blossoming too - they will stop getting the traffic if they over-commercialize their space...the advertisers may flolow but they may look very different and hopefully a lot less like advertisements My humble data-supported assessmnent is the quality and quantity of advertisement is very poor - when you have 69% of people who want mechanisms to skip ads completely and on some shows 25 minutes out of every hour is a commercial-supported, you have an industry problem..I don't have a measure on whether we actually like the ads we see on Tv vs 20 years ago but I do know we trust them less and act on them less. The same stats support in decline in trust and attention on programming too. That in part must explain the exodus from ad-supported media to consumer-supported media... cheers

Already made the email to Todd today...and the notes go out to my marketing, Strategy and media In canada colleagues tomorrow. We simply need to develop our own power 150 too...perhaps we'll call it Puissant 150. Thanks for your comment - as a marathoner, I've realized its always best to start low and slow and climb than sprint ahead and get dragged back to the field. If you posted more, I would say you blog deserves a big jump too (I recognize Inside Pr and a full time job and family take time). love the insight, contest and as we've seen PR works is a lightning rod for conversations. cheers.

David, Thus my lukewarm show of support. I'm torn between looking at something that encroaches on our already existing space and expertise and doing it in a way that may appear at first outset as being very traditional -minded in its orientation versus... the hoped for legitimization of this space. You, me and our ragtag army of zealots haven't yet been able to pull it off but if DDB, one of the icons of traditional ads doe this, perhaps it fosters the notion that the Oglivys, Maclaren's, Weber Shandwick's, Capial C's and Environics need to get moving, thus adding a layer of credibility for clients to finally say "yeah, we should really do this" and spend some of their $12 billion cdn hanging out in their tattered media pockets on this stuff. As for not reaching out to the rock stars of Canada's social media world, there really is not accounting for taste, is there? :) Perhaps its merely a show of respect that we're in fact the competition Have a good weekend.