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Brucewarila
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If you are building a music service and your value proposition is to enable people to discover new music, then you are probably doomed to be a niche service provider. Discovery is a low priority for most. (Am I parroting Kyle?) If you are building a music service and your value proposition is to improve the listening experience via great programming, then you are probably on to something that's a high priority for music consumers. (Songza is on to something.) The capacity to OBTAIN great programming (it's subjective, I know) via numerous modes (machine, self, DJs,) has exploded. You switch modes depending on context (self for the gym, machine at the desk, DJ in the car, etc). Other then purpose-driven discovery, discovery is an artifact of 'great programing'. It's not dead, it's not a lie, it's just not the best problem to solve.
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Kyle, another good observation. You probably read Paul Lamere's rebuttal? Like a lot of casual music consumers, I have six analog buttons on my car radio. Depending on the interface, I would happily accept 100 more. In the context of driving (most of us drive 13,000+miles a year), the (discovery) buttons solve the problem of preventing boredom. In this context, discovery is a great solution. I think you have to individually examine the predominant situations where we consume music (in the car, at work, at the gym, etc.) and determine 1) what's the problem, and 2) if discovery is a total or partial solution to the problem. I also think there's a consumption to a-need-to-discover graph that is in play here. The more you consume, the more you need to discover. If you listen to music a lot, you need to discover new music; if you listen minimally, you are not compelled to discover (you want familiar). If you plot each context against this graph, you can quickly determine where music discovery is a killer solution. ~Bruce
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Jeremy Schlosberg ‏@fingertipsmusic Brian Hazard ‏@colortheory thetrichordist ‏@thetrichordist Andrew Dubber @dubber Dave Allen ‏@DaveAtNORTH Eliot Van Buskirk ‏@listeningpost Jay Frank ‏@Repojay
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I wonder if 80%+ of those apps are Shazam, Spotify, Pandora ... and not much else?
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Free MP3s from known, major labels artists, yes. But switching to a free Coke-branded (ad-driven?) streaming service (from a website?) to save a few coins, and leaving your music collection/habits (and Spotify or iTunes) behind...doubtful. Perhaps the bar is low? Would 2,000,000 users be a success for Coke? Not sure what creating a "truly global music network" means? Coke needs to prove to consumers that the curation effort (by fans) won't go up in smoke when they ditch the service three years from now...
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Someone should have told Coke that free music is no longer a value proposition that will resonate with the majority of music fans.
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There's a ton of misinformation out there about SOPA. I believe this is the current version of the bill - http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.3261: Please show me the text (without taking anything out of context - not that you would, but I believe you would have to account for all the cascading clauses within the bill) that will obligate you to be responsible for someone (in a comment for example) linking to an infringer from this site. As I have said here and repeatedly on Twitter. This industry should have come out swinging with a strong pro-copyright message/strategy as an alternative to STOP.
Toggle Commented Jan 18, 2012 on >>> STOP SOPA < at hypebot
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"it will cripple innovation and destroy the core of what makes the internet the most important invention since the printing press" The funny thing is, nobody can back up statements like the one above with language from the current version of the bill. It's too late now, as SOPA as a brand is DOA. However this industry should have strongly supported a pro-copyright message that advocated fixing SOPA instead of killing it. The tech industry knows how to play the game. The music industry played it like amateur hour. We should have pushed a pro-copyright message until we got some compromise from the tech industry.
Toggle Commented Jan 18, 2012 on >>> STOP SOPA < at hypebot
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@Hunter, "the small independent creator who is most likely to be unable to fight nuisance suits" Unless they are being paid, lawyers don't bother suing people that don't have money, as you can't get blood out of a rock. "It essentially forces independent artists back into the safe harbor of big corporations" How so? Please explain. The challenge I have with STOP SOPA is that the arguments against are often based upon bits of the proposed bill that are often taken out of context. Moreover special interests (certain VC investors) don't want to absorb the burden of compliance, so they are also distorting the facts. I am not necessarily for SOPA as constructed, but it seems rather silly for anyone attached to the music industry to be in favor of STOP versus working to GET IT RIGHT. As I said above, there's an overlooked waive of innovation based upon compliance (happens in every industry) that will solve most of the problems that people are railing about.
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Brendan, When I read statements like this "there is no way to block all infringing content from any social media service, other than shutting it down" on Eliot's blog, I have to wonder if the STOP SOPA movement is as half-baked as detractors say SOPA is? I don't know? However I do believe that SOPA could cause a whole different wave of innovation; that is the race to provide compliance services to Internet companies. In a world where I can "Shazam" any song or movie (for free), I don't think it's far-fetched to ask technology companies to do the same upon every upload. Moreover maintaining and checking a whitelist or blacklist site (URL) compliance registry doesn't seem like a lot of overhead (albeit, the plumbing is in the details). I am willing to be further educated on this subject. However right now, SOPA (or something like it) seems to be a choice between supporting the developer / technology ecosystem, or supporting the artist / label ecosystem. The two ecosystems certainly have a co-dependent / symbiotic relationship. However from my perspective, the tech ecosystem seems like the hungry parasite that has sucked the life out of the content community. Compliance (as I naively understand it) seems like a small price to pay for 'inventory' that is priced at near zero. Instead of STOP SOPA, I would rather see energy dumped into getting it right and making it win-win for everyone. IMHO, the rampant and free uploading and downloading of everything and anything could use some law, order and compliance - and that's coming from a near-libertarian.
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Great post Robin.
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@Sam, many of our ads with music players generate click-through rates that are twice the rate of national brand advertisers using top flight creative. It seems that consumers would rather interact with an ad featuring artists than ads that features other propositions.
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Interest graph versus social graph? To my knowledge, MySpace didn't do anything to leverage the interest graph, which probably has far more behavioral targeting value to advertisers than the social graph. Just for starters, MySpace could have applied social recommendation technology to (duh) make social recommendations, to target ads, and to improve the overall user experience. I could go on and on about UX, as there was zero innovation in that area also. The people running MySpace were simply asking the wrong questions and attempting to solve the wrong problems. On a side note, it's amazing how much press former MySpace people leverage off of failure?
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If I did the math correctly, @ $0.00029 per spin it would take 3,414 spins (from one person) to equate to a single download. That's a lot of spins (once a day for nine years) to expect out of a single song over a lifetime. Something seems wrong. Unless their model is based upon a thirty of forty year relationship (between a song and a fan), or unless they used .25cents as the comparative (download) value when they (Spotify) did their proforma analysis, the $0.00029 per spin value seems lacking in empathy (for artists that is). I personally want to find the silver lining (or the mistake in the math) in this for artists. Even after giving the calculations some thought (and after reading related posts), I am reserving judgment until I have more corroborating information (not to say anyone here is mistaken, as you presented facts), but someone else will find a way to put lipstick on the pig...
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And finally, I agree with almost everything Jay wrote. It's consistent with almost everything I do in the industry.
Toggle Commented Dec 2, 2010 on Jay Frank: Algorithms Can't Pick Hits at hypebot
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Also, "hit predicting" is the wrong use / wrong application for the technology. I will debate anyone (next week) that there are practical uses for the underlying technology. Also, from my post: "When it comes to songs, determining popularity potential (along a spectrum and within niches) and then matching songs to taste preferences, and artists to target audiences (through recommendation), are the technological advancements that should really matter to the majority of artists (IMHO)." Cheers.
Toggle Commented Dec 2, 2010 on Jay Frank: Algorithms Can't Pick Hits at hypebot
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I never worked for Yahoo. I assume he's talking about me or you Jay? If it's me, the man should read my post prior to attempting to make a point.
Toggle Commented Dec 2, 2010 on Jay Frank: Algorithms Can't Pick Hits at hypebot
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Hey Wow, I don't run Music Xray. Did you read the post or do we speak different languages? Music Xray doesn't use hit prediction technology at all. What's your point? IBM used to sell typewriters. It always amazes me when people don't have the courage to use their names.
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Jeff sure is passionate about his business. That's probably a good thing.
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As Internet entrepreneur that has been investing, working and writing to improve the "artist condition" for years, and as someone that is a paid observer of the music industry, I mostly agree with T Bone's statements. Self-promotion is not where it's at. Let your music and your fans do it for you (http://bit.ly/cJzJyl). Going forward, QUALITY is the only thing that is going to matter on the Internet. IMHO, anyone that raps on this guys is misinformed. T-Bone, if you are ever in Boston, I will buy the beer. -Bruce http://www.echolouder.com/
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Skip the labels... I am wishfully thinking about an end-to-end solution.. artist profile page on the web >> right through to distribution >> streaming >> downloads >> all the way to the consumer's pocket >> recommendation included.
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The article in the Post and the quotes here demonstrate a naive (at best) understanding of the entire issue. - Net Neutrality = Government Regulation. You are too young to remember that government regulated long distance used to cost Americans .60 cents a minute. - Profit incentives, and not much else, drives innovation. - Profitable competition is the only thing that will hold or drive down prices, not government regulation. - A level playing field = inadequate incentive. - Do you really want all these large telecom companies (neutered into becoming public utilities) jointly lobbying the FCC/Congress for annual price increase - year after year, and all passed onto to consumers? - Wireless Internet is different. Let these large telecom and tech companies merge and fight it out. Consumers will win. - Government (over) regulation, and not the lack of it, is what causes consumers to only have one or two (at best) choices for wired Internet in our homes. - Etc, etc, etc. Be careful what you wish for and thoroughly research both sides of the argument. Government oversight can be useful as a notice, but government regulation usually ends in unbalanced disaster.
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This was a phenomenal post and story. It's the story of the year (so far). -Bruce
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Jan 13, 2010