At the end of the day isn't the question really one of economics?

Well, it's not always easy to be politically astute and morally correct in our consumerism. I wish there was an easier way to discern a company's politics. Take the company Curves for example. Apparently the people that own this are extreme right-wingers and donate largely to those causes. So whenever I know women who talk about going there, I inform them. And it's rampant. Take Unilever and their Dove campaign for "real beauty". Well that'd be super and all if they weren't the same people making Axe products and doing a 180 where men and women are both treated reprehensibly. I guess my point is it's hard enough knowing what the major corporations are doing, and who they donate to, so picking out a few winemakers out of the 10's of 1000's out there around the globe is the proverbial needle in the haystack. And then there's being too politically correct as it were. Sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade. And if people are going to flip out over it then the problem is with them being over sensitive. Much like your cheese analogy. And as always, George Carlin said it best.... George Carlin on "soft language" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h67k9eEw9AY

God love ya, Alice. Because I so hate you. Because I'm so jealous of your life. You're a helluva gal.

This is why I've always referred to them as 'minimalist' wines, rather than natural. The latter opens up too many needless arguments over semantics, whereas the former conveys more of an attitude and desire without being bogged down with the semantical minutiae.

As someone in the hopitality biz a very long time I too never understand this attitude. People get religious about how local and organic their food is but think nothing of the wine, or dismiss 'natural' wines as hippy bullshit. The cognitive disconnect simply boggles the mind.

Sadly, as a Canadian (eh), it's nigh on impossible to get most of these wines as we're condemned to drink the overpriced plonk as dictated by Big Brother in the province of Ontario. I suppose the alternatives are perhaps getting some of the wine clubs into offering a better selection of biodynamic and organic wines. I'm curious though as to how hard it is finding most of these in the US - NY state in particular. Seeing as we're in Toronto, we pop down to Premier Wine and Spirits across the border with some regularity so perhaps that would be more viable? And what's the cost you're looking at on a lot of these vintages? I'd presume that for many of us, money is in fact very much an object. I read an article recently with Hugh Johnson lamenting how so many good wines that were fairly priced even 20 or 30 years ago are now unobtainable by most except maybe once in a blue moon for a very special occasion. And while I can understand that with limited supply - as everyone wants a nice Bordeaux - but I always find that at odds with the big picture that says more wine is being produced than ever before without signs of it slowing down. So which and where do we find these affordable gems for the working stiffs. Dropping $250 on a 95 Emidio Pepe would be nice but something I can ill afford with anything even approaching regularity.

And this is why they need to abandon the word natural. The semantical nonsense revolving around this word in this context is the height of absurdity. This is why I always utilize "minimal(ist)" instead. It speaks more to the spirit of the thing than anything technical. It means that while the wine may not be completely "natural" it is at least what the winemaker is striving for. The natural silliness reminds me of that scene from Grosse Point Blank.... Waitress: What do you want in your omelette, sir? Marty: Nothing in the omelette, nothing at all. Waitress: Well, that's not technically an omelette. Marty: Look, I don't want to get into a semantic argument, I just want the protein.

How do you feel about the whole ceramic egg thing, Alice?

"without attitude or pissing people off-- a trait worth acquiring" peaking of anyone in particular, Alice? Hrmm? :)

Alice, I'm always curious to how much you look to try forgotten - or little known - grapes. Much like what Chris Kern is doing in SoCal. Things like Traminette from Ithaca or Negrette, et al. While it's the natural/minimalist wine world is wonderful, what about those gems no one sees much of anymore? Do those things pique your interest as well?

While not quite cider I can never think of cider without thinking of Applejack and the following quote.... "There are few compounds that are more sinful than the applejack of New Jersey. The name has a homely, innocent appearance, but in reality applejack is a particularly powerful and evil spirit. The man who intoxicates himself on bad whisky is sometimes moved to kill his wife and set his house on fire, but the victim of applejack is capable of blowing up a whole town with dynamite and of reciting original poetry to every surviving inhabitant." – A Wicked Beverage,” New York Times, April 10, 1894

You have a real knack for turning wonderful phrases, Alice. I can never think of Italian wines - the spoofalated kind at any rate - now without thinking of that wonderfully cheeky phrase of yours in Parkerization - which I now use for all spoof wines - 'molto spufalato'. Your other phrase from Naked....'a fat and slutty syrah' makes me giggle like a schoolboy whenever I drink syrah now. You certainly make reading about wine a hell of a lot fun, Alice. Cheers Cutter