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"It's my first positive interaction with the Korean media -- well, actually the second, to be fair -- and I'm pretty jazzed about that." I gotta say reading that is amusing. Congrats Mike ;)
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Scott, Duh, no I don't deny I said it because I did say it. What I said at the start of all this was it was over two years in the past. What's funny to me is this is personal yet you come onto this blog with this mission to call me out as a "hypocrite" and a "fraud". I intentionally chose to stay on the unreasonable side of an argument. That's called being an advocatus diaboli, or devil's advocate, and it's not unheard of. In case, you (or anyone else who has a problem with it) can't recall what it means, I suggest you just run a web search for the term. One meaning of the term is this, "someone who takes the worse side just for the sake of argument". This exchange went back and forth via email and you were silly enough to believe it. I didn't particularly have a good impression of the woman, but, then again, you introduced me to her and I didn't have a good impression of you either. I'm sure it was a bad impression by association. The bottom line is this, I don't care who dates whom here in the Land of the Morning Calm or anywhere else for that matter. Funny, that you're saying I'm lying about playing devil's advocate when I've actually written about doing this on my own blog. Me a Rush Limbaugh? From what I know about Mr. Limbaugh, he CONSISTENTLY takes the extreme right-wing side of issues. I'll take an extreme side on issues to be a thorn in someone's side, but I'll admit as much when I do it. Yes, I did send you a link after meeting you at that lecture and before running into you later on at that bar. We discussed some stuff after the lecture over dinner and, even if I don't think I like someone, I'll follow through with what I promise to share. If I recall correctly, we were stuck at the same table that evening. I'd just met you. Even if I thought you going on and on about academics and publishing was silly and offensive, that's not a reason to try to converse. It's just that almost every time I dealt with you after that the deeper my dislike became. The link I shared was a link to the Yangpa site for God's sake! And, I also shared it with the person who invited us both to that lecture. Oh, that was DEEP bonding. I wasn't THAT serious initially because even I can acknowledge that MAYBE I misjudged someone. It was a link to a jokester website. That's a testament to the deep bond of friendship we'd created. You've got to be joking that giving you a link to a web site means anything more than I gave you a link to a web site. YOU first introduced this woman to me as "nalari". I'm sure she'd be happy to hear you referred to her as such. So who initially started bashing her? That would be you. It's just when I didn't chastise you for calling her that and upped the ante, you decided to save this defenseless woman from my scarring words neglecting that you'd started it. This simple-minded either/or construct you have is ridiclous. You can use a derogatory term but let me be just as offensive and eons after the fact I've got you throwing out my name ON AN ISSUE I'D NOT EVEN WRITTEN ABOUT OR COMMENTED ON. You say you don't go to my blog but you also say I'm "known" for writing about race. Well how do you even know that? What gives you the authority to comment on anything I've written if you've not taken the time to read it and have a clue on what I've written about? The fact is if you'd read my blog or even just clicked over to check it before making this sweeping claim that I was a hypocrite you would have noticed that when it comes to the issue of this post, I'd not even discussed it. Again, in your haste to settle a personal score you were way to eager to start some mess. If anything about this is hypocritical, it's the whole premise behind YOU even taking this up as an issue to harp on. If you're going to call me out by name, don't think I'm going to sit back and let you get away with it when this is nothing more than personal grudge. Now you're shooting back on the fact that I've just come out and said I don't like you. Again...GET.OVER.IT. So you Scott Burgeson have the right to be foolish, but let me throw some fuel on the fire and I'm the poster-child for hypocrisy. That's both hilarious and ridiculous. Give me a break.
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3gyupsal, You're welcome...thanks for getting it. ----------- Scott, Again, you're a dullard. Over two years after the fact you DON'T GET that in your first conversation with me YOU OFFENDED ME. I, however, chose not to call you out and hold some petty grudge two years after the fact because again, who cares? However, YOU are still holding a grudge because you're too dense to see that your harping on academia just mere minutes after meeting me offended me. Maybe you thought you were bonding with me, but, in general, I respect education and educators. You didn't know me from Adam but chose to bend my ear talking about your problems with your writing not being taken seriously. Believe me, it's not that you're not knowledgeable or not a good writer. It's that you're an intolerable ass who is more concerned about opining ad nauseum than actually listening and observing life's subtleties. The second time I saw you I went out of my way to offend you. I took an intentionally contrary view to piss you off and get you away from me. I didn't know that girl. I'm sure she's probably a very nice woman. This far out of the gate you're still too dense to figure out that it was my version of payback. So let me spoon feed that to you. No, YOU don't matter. As I said before, and what you've intentionally chosen to ignore, what matters is you had the gall to call me out by name on this blog for being a hypocrite and fraud when I have not written or said anything on the issue in this post. If you're going to publicly attack me, I'm going to come right back at you or anyone else who is stupid enough to try it. Your haste to call me out shows you're a grudge holding idiot. I was playing devil's advocate in the hopes you'd get a clue and leave me alone (that didn't work). I've got tons of Korean female friends and whoever they're happy dating is fine with me. I could give a crap who white men here date. The fact that you believed it is actually funny not only to me, but to everyone I've told this story to.
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Scott, you seem stuck in that "gotta have the last word" dynamic again. Good to hear that I'm "known" for writing about race. You've accused me of being a hypocrite and a fraud based on Mike publishing an essay I've neither linked to nor discussed. So who is making shit up and stretching here? Funny, I'm a race baiter but the fact that I actually encourage blacks to come here to work if they desire isn't something you mention. Just go to that very famous forum on teaching ESL in Korea and look up almost any thread where a black teacher has sought advice about working here. You get reply after reply written trying to convince prospective black teachers that Korea is like a 24/7 KKK rally. Maybe me telling blacks that no, it's really not that bad is a bit too fair to Koreans and fair to blacks who, like me, want to pursue the urge to live abroad. You bring up the Smokey Saloon like it's some horrible thing that I wrote about a bad experience I had there. I've also written about the great experiences I've had here too and I don't see you harping on those. Maybe that's a bit too nice of me to write about the good stuff that happens here and too much sunshine for you to talk about. You idiot. Hasn't it occurred to you that I simply don't want your zine? I don't care about contributing to your "Incredibly Strange Foreigners in Korea" project. I don't want anything to do with you. I don't care who your friends are. I don't care that they don't know me. What I said is not about your friends. It's about three people that we know in common, all of them have said at some point that you've brought me up. Every time that catches me off guard because you don't factor into my world. Of course I'm here commenting now! I spoke to Mike yesterday and he told me you called me out by name in the comment section of this blog. Again, that caught me off guard and I'm thinking "what the hell!!!?" I rarely read the comment section of this blog. Your "peas in a pod" theory exists exclusively in your little bug brain. You fail to recognize this: YOU DON'T MATTER TO ME What matters to me is you've got the nerve to call me out in relation to something I've not written about and something I've not commented on. That's pure brilliance!
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Okay Scott, from what I recall, you specifically described her as "nalari" to me. In fact, you followed up with an email to me entitled "How to Speak Korean/English Like a Nalari". You're so dense that you don't know when someone is playing the game you like to play. Beyond that, the issue is over two years in the past. LET...IT...GO. What's funny is you call me out as a race baiter when I didn’t post the Tim Wise's article. What Mike took from my blog was Keith's Olbermann's diatribe to the Republicans for the 9/11 footage they showed at their national convention. Were you so quick to throw my name in the mix that you didn't take the time to check what I'd posted? Speaking of delusional and simple-minded thinking, you're a great example of it. 'Mike knows Regina and Regina knows Mike. They're both black bloggers in Korea. They've both written about race. Wow! They must think the same on all issues.' If you've not noticed, but for posting Michael Grunwald's article, I've not touched the issue of white voters or white privilege in this election. However, in your haste to come after me, you've tripped over yourself to throw my name in it too. You're 100% wrong and rolling on dislike rather than what I've actually discussed. You're an idiot. Not only are you an idiot, you're an idiot that is guilty of what you accuse me of: making shit up. Go figure. Again, you show your capacity for listening is close to nil. It’s great that you've been to the Smokey Saloon "a million times." I'd been once before myself and decided it was time for a treat. What I experienced was exactly what I said. I went in. I said something in English and asked for a menu. The Korean waiter on duty at that time turned tail, instructed the Philipina cook on duty to help me and walked away. Yes, it could be that he was suffering from a bad headache or HAD to go potty right then and there so it's a misunderstanding, but I truly doubt it. You do realize that degrees of this have happened before? I walk up to a counter, the person on duty notices I'm not Korean (or notices that I'm black...whatever), and they step to the side and push someone else up to help me. It's just that with an aching tooth I was not in the mood to just shrug it off. I wrote about it and if you don't like it, just don't bother clicking over to my blog when you see links to it pop up. It's amazing how I just close your blathering emails and let them go. You, on the other hand, seem to lack that capacity. Why is it that white males in Korea can moan and groan about being subject bad treatment here but let a black person talk about something that happens to them and it's that damn race card being played? Speaking of white guys dating Korean women, how many stories do I hear about some dude bemoaning the fact that he's not been introduced to his Korean girlfriend's family? I believe these guys. I don't tell the guy that he's clearly making shit up. However, the difference between them and me must be the fact that because discrimination is new for them they can play the race card to their little rejected hearts’ content. In contrast, blacks are the only people prone to exaggeration. Non-whites in Korea most definitely are judged more harshly than whites from Western countries. Even white teachers try to sway blacks from coming here to teach due to their belief that Koreans are racists. I actually tell blacks that it's not as bad as whites make it out to be and, they're heard me, and they've come. But discrimination does exist just as having a bad day exists. So when we're here and when we actually talk about what we experience, it's not that it's possibly true...no, it can't be! It's just that we're wandering the streets of Seoul trapped in a defensive and delusional state. This state skews all of our perceptions, so that when a Korean smiles and asks "hello, seat for one?" that it's seen as someone sneering, turning around and walking away. Yeah, that's exactly what's happening. BTW, I never said the guy in the Smokey Saloon was a racist. I said his customer service was subpar. Funny how YOU'VE shoved it into a conversation where you've accused me of discussing race. So who exactly is playing the race card in this scenario? You don't like me and I don't like you. That's how it is. Funny how I NEVER mention you but I've heard from others that you bring me up. What a small world you must live in. GET OVER IT. What makes it incredibly funny is your bias is glaring because I'm just as quick to praise the positive things that happen to me here in Korea much more than a lot of K-bloggers. Let white teachers tell it and Koreans are waiting for black people at Incheon International Airport with tar and feathers. Again, who exactly is playing the race card here in Korea? So again, keep me out of your petty squabble. You don't really interest me half as much as I seem to interest you.
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Scott aka King Baeksu, I'll keep this simple: you're an idiot. If discussing race is "playing the race card" and is cause for "hypocrisy" then I'm in good company. You can name call all you want because you show that you understand nothing, aren't willing to actually listen and it's all about your little limited view on the world. This is between you and Mike, but you have the gall to call me out as a race baiting hypocrite? For what? This is personal and you know it. I ignored your multiple requests to contribute a piece about "Incredibly Strange Foreigners in Korea". I ignored you for a good reasons. The most important being you're one of those "incredibly strange foreigners" to me. With that said, leave me out of your bickering with Mike. It's a waste of time and completely dumb.
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Obama is doing the right thing by simply saying no one's family should be put on the political chopping block. It's clear the GOP is stock full of hypocrites. (Hell, I'll admit the Democratic party has some too.) I think Obama and crew NOT jumping on this is great. The media is on it, in spite of that. It's pretty clear that the last person who should be VP is Palin and the last person who should be the next president of the USA is someone who'd choose her as a running mate.
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Yeah, I noticed they'd put up a construction barrier and there was heavy equipment, but I always thought the main features of the building were going to remain. I didn't even know they were tearing it down. When I saw it, I thought it was time for renovations. I guess not :S (It shows how much time I don't spend in the City Hall/Gwanghwamun area anymore.) There is no respect or reverence for the old in terms of possessions in Korea. How many times have you heard stories about perfectly good pieces of furniture being left on the street after a family "moves up" to a new strata of housing? (I always wonder why they don't just donate it to charity. I guess there are no charities.) With that sort of cavalier attitude towards things in general, I guess it's no surprise with that they can take a wrecking ball to that wonderful building and it took weeks for people to notice. While folks were out running around going on and on over beef imports and the crap science surrounding that overblown mess, they maybe should have noticed the historic building being torn apart right before their eyes. I don't think it's fair to say it's Lee Myung-bak's fault. It can get to the point that any little thing is his fault and isn't this more a city issue than a national one? If Lee's so bad, how did he get elected by a landslide? I'm sorry. The guy isn't THAT bad. It's easy to blame it on the president because he's not a popular figure right now. However, considering that building was being torn down while thousands upon thousands of people weekend after weekend were surrounding it protesting potentially poisonous US beef imports that strikes me as a load of hot steaming crap. It was happening right before the eyes of the Korean public. This is the Korean public's legacy to preserve because I'll be dammed if I let someone tear down L.A. City Hall or San Francisco City Hall without a fight. The Korean public just chose rampant beef inspired xenophobia over looking at what was happening right in front of them for weeks. Score another one for the Korean public being lead by the nose.
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Well, Elise, the reporters shadowed him for an afternoon and not for a week. All you have to do is go to the FMS site to see that he's shooting in many other spots in Seoul.
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You're all welcome to go there. I just won't be. It was my second time there and it's not worth it to me to go back to check it out when, as Mike points out, you can get great burgers elsewhere. The Hard Rock Cafe just opened up and they have great food and there are other spots that are competing for our business. What Koreans need to realize is one bad customer service move and the customer is lost, period. I worked in customer service and the bottom line is your bad day is not the customer's concern. I'm sure he was having a bad day or maybe he just hates women, black people AND foreigners because I'm in all of those groups. I don't know, but I just don't care. I just know that he made an ass of himself because I can speak Korean. He just wasn't worth speaking it to ;) Plus, I have Chinese food leftovers now and I wouldn't have two days of great Chinese food had I gotten a burger at the Surly Saloon.
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Ha! Everyone has read this article and it's been out for how long? Just a couple of days! Anyway, I agree with la resistance28. Obama has outclassed her at every step. I hoped she'd have more style and would take the punches gracefully. I was ready to support her, but just observing how she handles herself, I don't want her as my next president. I'm happy that it seems to be coming down to Obama vs. McCain. I loathe neither of them. It will be the first presidential campaign in a long time where I can say that.
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Thanks Mike, but, really TypePad has to figure out the comment spam process. Anyway, to the people asking about Miss Koco, I've got quite a few things I don't blog about. I've not had an extremely traumatic experience here like Mike had, but I've been touched, grabbed and messed with. Honestly, for me, it's not worth it to blog it. I don't want to bring the bitch about Korea m.o. to my blog. I'll go to Dave's ESL Cafe if the mood strikes for that and it hasn't struck in years. If the situation were reallly bad I probably would blog it. I blogged when some stupid ass middle school kids irked me. However, I'd rather write about the good points of being here. There are people here who wonder why Miss Koco didn't blog it, ask her. She's got a blog. It's not like she can't be found, and it's not like you can't ask her. That's simple enough. I say HollaBack Seoul would be a great idea. So who is going to contact them, form an alliance and head it up? When Koreans stop snapping me with their cell phone cameras, I'll give a crap about their privacy related laws. If a guy decides to put his hands on someone someone should snap his picture and put it up on the net. Maybe Attorney Carr can comment on what sort of legal exposure a blog like that would have. But in terms of jurisdiction if it's a US based blog, they're screwed. Also, if people submit pics anonymously they can't sue who they can't find.
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There is so much mad drivel in some of these comments. I'm glad most have sense and are giving you support Mike. Anyway, just a shout out to the comment that made me laugh: ""HEY DUDE, KOREANS ARE A MINORITY TOO." Not in Korea, you moron." Thanks for the chuckle Bah ;)
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That sucks. I'm glad you documented it. I agree with Carr that you ought to file your own complaint. I'll blog this too because this is true blue bull, and the news of this has to get out there. Keep us posted.
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Excellent! 'Cause I'm sick of ... nevermind. Thanks for linking her.
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Actually, dwilliams, the podcast was prompted because some fuckwit was going after my academic advisor/professor. I don't play, so I contacted my professor immediately and went on the offensive. However, I contacted Mike later that day because it had happened to me (credentials listed as something they weren't - intentionallly or unintentionally - dunno?) I know it's had happened to Mike too. I figured he could relate to the anger I was feeling over having to deflect suspicion off of my advisor. It does seem, however, that this reporter realizes there is no story. I'm watching and if he has a slow day and publishes it based only on conjecture, as Mike says, it's on.
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Dead on. I brought up the same topic in class when on professor of mine was talking about the swift economic development of Korea. We were theorizing about the various reasons behind it. One was Koreans drive for education. My question was if there is such a drive for education why is there so much plagiarism and outright lying? Those problems are so pervasive here that it indicates a drive for status and power more than education. At least, now it's not just foreigners being called out for fake degrees. We've all known for a very long time that a lot of Koreans have faked their educations because there is NO way so many can be in high positions of power but be so dammed incompetent and defensive by chance. All of this is not due to a clash of cultures. A lot of this is due to a genuine fear of being found out. What matters to me is performing well and actually teaching my students. However, I know that, for better or for worse, it's my educational pedigree that gets me the jobs. Should the tide turn, I can say I've got the references to back me up. However, even with all the hype, I don't see the system changing anytime soon.
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Oh shit...I hope it turns out to be a great one. Political correctness is not going to be the theme to this one. The preview looks funny.
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It's a blog. Either you like it or you don't. On both sides, is the topic really that serious? I mean it's a blog which focuses on the lighter end of the subject spectrum: entertainment. However, there are a few blogs I link to that are fashion and entertainment focused and they're damn good blogs. If it's not your thing click to something else. However, any blog that links pics of celebs, aka dorks, in animal ski hats is cool with me. I bought a tiger one while skiing this past winter at the Muju resort and I LOVE it. It's definite fluff but, I'm sorry, my tiger hat is wonderful fluff ;)
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Thanks law and David. I think I'll stay on for an additional year 'cause I love my job (how many expats do you hear saying that?) and I can spend the next year taking Korean. If I'm serious about PhD studies I don't think any decent program will have me unless I can pass at least the basic version of the KLPT, Korean language proficiency test. I'll be around. At least, that's the plan now.
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OMGWTFBBQ! PMSL!
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I don't wanna write my intention to go. What? I gotta go through two steps instead of one?!!! Oh wait, I guess by writing all that gibberish I've indicated my intent to go. You've got mail.
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Dang Mike! Between you and Mr. ZenKimchi, aka Joe, http://www.zenkimchi.com/?p=10 , my goal to have this fly under the radar with only friends and family know isn't going to happen. Notice I didn't blog it. Anyway, what's more exciting is I'm graduating with the higest GPA in my class. There goes that model minority myth as it certainly wasn't affirmative action that got me that. I'm also getting an award for best thesis. However, that on is due to the unfair advantage of me being a native English speaker and damn good academic English writer. I do think my thesis topic was hot though ;)
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hahahaha - Ian Ziering and Star Jones - that's enough to kill you. This is one of the things that makes me laugh about pop culture in Korea. Talk to your average Korean and they act like they have no clue where Korean artists get their "inspiration" (I'm erring on the benefit of the doubt side on this intentionally.) I forget the artist's name now, but he swore up and down that he created his moves but anyone familiar with hip-hop dance could see where his "inspiration" came from. I think her going to Africa is great if those the people there get something positive out of it. When it comes to charity and helping those less fortunate I wish more people would be "inspired", so nothing but kudos to her for going. Maybe more will follow.
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Beeyatch...
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