Brice - no "citing" as you request. This whole post was based on my perspective. Your perspective is different--so write your own view of what has changed. My purpose wasn't (isn't) to devalue the past, but to point out what has changed and, in some cases, to celebrate the progress.

You had me at "wank."

That is awesome of Seth. My guess he didn't use the profit from the event to help train church leaders from around the world. But I could be wrong.

Shame on the church who relies on care cards and attendance records to discover whether people are there or whether they have left. Church is about life-on-life. And if I leave a church and no one notices--it's because I haven't been pressing into relationships. An attendance or care card system can catch the new and unconnected--but for those who have been around awhile...they are cared for by the believers around them. And that is the church being the church.

Agree and disagree. Disagree that something is wrong or lacking if you feel the need to leave a church. Maybe you are moving. Maybe the passion/focus God has put on your heart is better nurtured somewhere else. Maybe your personal gift to the church is better utilized with a different group of believers. Agree that, as a pastor, I often want to know why they are leaving. My article wasn't about the pastors' response. It was about the proactiveness of the person leaving.

Yeah, that's probably a whole other post on how to treat people with grace when they leave.

Chris - pride, legalism and a judgmental heart are hard to detect in one self. Before I followed your strategy, I would make sure I had some pastors and spiritual counselors around me who could confirm that my issues were real, and that there wasn't a huge log in my own eye.

Michelle - Thank you for your note. You and Brian have great integrity and you are missed greatly! My hesitation in writing this article was that anyone who may have left GCC recently might feel I was writing about them. But not true, just hopefully helpful for anyone out there thinking of leaving their church now. We miss you guys!

No one exemplifies this characteristic of learning from mistakes better than you, Kem Meyer. And no, it's not because you make a lot of mistakes. It's because you are constantly looking for ways to do better. Way to go!

Tom - got your email and sent a reply last night to your AOL address, but came back "undeliverable." Just wanted you to know I tried.

Music (without words) is neither Christian nor non-Christian. It is merely music. And many secular songs are not "totally contrary to God." They may not be worshipful, or about God--but that doesn't mean they are contrary to God. Of course, if you want to drill down on this further, you could always read Pop Goes the Church :)

The purpose of our prelude is to let everyone in the building know the service is about to start. We do familiar songs that are high energy to build excitement and anticipation for the service.

Their placement on our SMT is not positional. In other words, DC Curry is not on the SMT because he is the Director of Student Ministry. He's on there because of his towering leadership abilities and our sense that he can help us with the macro vision and direction of the church. As far as the vision for Granger, we do this together on the SMT. Yes, there are times when a decision has to be made solo or with just Mark and myself -- but it probably doesn't happen once every 2 years or so. Most the time, we work hard to lead as a team.

We rarely do vocals for prelude--since people are still walking in and getting settled.

No context -- we always try to have a high-energy band number for prelude.

Great thoughts Ralph. I think the difference is the medium. TV is one-way...you have no idea who else is viewing that service with you. The good online church services are communal in nature. You can "see" who else is there at the same time, you can communicate with them, you can build a conversation with them outside the service, you can connect to build a deeper relationship, you can "encourage each other to good works" and so on. I think as that two-way medium enters the living room--it will even deepen in its' possibilities!

Whatever the labels or semantics, we have seen hundreds of adults publicly commit their lives to Jesus this year for the first time, with more than 400 of them being baptized earlier this fall. But I'm not going to debate it Randy. Our messages are available online and everyone can decide for themselves.

It's not only a show, and it definitely contains the gospel. We just focus it on those early in their journey. Sacraments are offered for believers at other services that happen midweek.

Such good thoughts coming from someone named "anon." I totally agree with you: We should ask the same question regarding weekend services. They are, after all, also a method. However, I don't know any church leaders who desire commitment so they can buy expensive equipment. I assume your statement is hyperbole based on your own experience...but most leaders truly believe what they are doing will produce life change.

David - thanks for taking the time to jump in on the discussion...and for letting your "case study" spur on such great dialogue. You've made some great points here!

Must not be too obvious. I actually listen to or watch Glenn Beck nearly every day. As I said in the post, I agree with much of what he says.

If you'd like to have a dialogue about this, you'll need to reveal your identity. I don't have time for anonymous conversations.

Jason - Kanye was a jerk for what he did. Not for what he believes.

Charles - evidently you didn't read my entire post above. I said, "I agree with a lot of the underlying beliefs espoused by Glenn Beck." Please don't paint me with an over-generalization. Review my blog and you'll find me very open-minded.