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Zebra batteries have an energy density of around 160Wh/l as compared to lithium ion with an energy density of 250-620Wh/l. The battery in the chevy volt has an energy density of around 400Wh/l. Sodium sulphur batteries have similar specific energies and densities.
Now if the Volt requires an enormous battery to go 40 miles, I can't begin to imagine how big and heavy the battery required to power a bus would have to be.
Ballard to supply fuel cell modules for transit buses in Norway
Ballard FCvelocity module. Click to enlarge. Ballard Power Systems has entered into a contract for the supply of fuel cell power modules to power five zero-emission hydrogen fuel cell buses operated by the HyNor Oslo Buss group, to service the greater Oslo area. Belgian coach manufacturer Va...
@Davemart
All your points are valid, but the overall point I was trying to make is that switching to a Biogasoline that is compatible with current vehicles allows any owner to simply make the choice to fill up with biogasoline when the price becomes competitive (continued research is required before we get to that point). That way the speed at which it is adopted is purely limited by how fast biorefineries can be set up or old refineries retrofitted, along with the conversion of non-arable land to algae farms or other technologies.
I agree this data may be off, but I was trying to demonstrate that even if it was off by a factor of magnitude its still predicting very small amounts.
EVs and PHEVs are an immediate solution, because the infrastructure is already developed, but adoption is very slow due to the fact that consumers arent replacing cars that fast even if every single vehicle sold is electric.
Overall what I'm saying is that drop-in biofuels have the potential to penetrate the current fleet much faster than EVs once competitive, and by effect can reduce oil consumption quicker.
Thus I feel that more research should be put into drop in fuels to help them scale up the processes faster.
EVs and Biofuels are both solutions to our current situation, and we need all of them.
Center for Automotive Research releases study on estimated US distribution pattern of electric vehicles through 2015; focus on incentives
The CAR study uses the distribution of hybrid sales as the basis to estimate the distribution of plug-in electric vehicle sales. Source: CAR. Click to enlarge. In a new study, the Center for Automotive Research, an Ann Arbor, Michigan-based nonprofit research organization, is estimating the ...
"critical temperature" without pressure does not describe the cessation of phase boundary - which is EP's apparent interest in methanol fuels.
This is true, but isn't autoignition temp still a different thing altogether?
"But the germane discussion is the plausibility of using either methanol or ethanol as a renewable additive."
Guess I got a little off track here, I was just wondering if M85 was actually more toxic than the gasoline it would be replacing.
Don't take offense but the main reason I challenged the topic was that it tends to get hard data posted, and through that data (667ppm @ 10 min) you have now convinced me that methanol is pretty toxic as an additive, especially considering how readily it evaporates in the atmosphere.
NREL report estimates gasoline produced from biomass could cost about the same as ethanol
Current case design block flow diagram of thermochemical gasoline from biomass-derived methanol and the methanol-to-gasoline process. Source: NREL. Click to enlarge. A new report from the US Department of Energy’s National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) concludes that gasoline produced v...
If its 45 grams all at once for a fatal dose for a 60 kg person you'd have to drink 57 cc of pure methanol. Thats around a 1/4 cup. I would imagine drinking 1/4 cup of gasoline wouldn't be so good for you either.
B. Acute Toxicity
Ingestion of 80 to 150 mL of methanol is usually fatal
to humans (HSDB 1994).
From epa.gov
Now that I have more accurate data it is now showing it would take at least 1/3 cup to kill you, way more than youd ever experience at the gas station.
NREL report estimates gasoline produced from biomass could cost about the same as ethanol
Current case design block flow diagram of thermochemical gasoline from biomass-derived methanol and the methanol-to-gasoline process. Source: NREL. Click to enlarge. A new report from the US Department of Energy’s National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) concludes that gasoline produced v...
"It will be good to have award winning European economy engines in the US."
Without a change in emissions standards, the Fiat engine mentioned in the article if imported to the US will have to be detuned to pass our emissions, and will as a result run much less efficiently
Fiat passes 4 million mark with 1.3 16v MultiJet engine production
The 4 millionth 1.3 16v MultiJet engine left the Fiat Powertrain plant in Bielsko Biala, Poland, on 4 February. Fiat called this a “prestigious achievement” testifying to the great success that this small diesel engine has achieved since 2003. The engine is the evolution of the Common Rail syste...
"Its time to relax our air pollution standards a bit"
I absolutely agree with this statement. What the public doesn't understand is that EPA vehicle pollution standards inhibit the fuel efficiency of our cars. Many people I know tend to group these two together, when in fact there is an inverse relationship between the cleanliness of an engine and its efficiency.
For example, some friends of mine work at Cummins Diesel. In the dyno test cells, they can change the ECU programming to bypass all emissions equipment and obtain incredible efficiencies. I would love if they could offer this to the public, but because of emissions standards they cant run the engine lean because of the NOx it produces.
Our high emissions standards are one of the primary reasons our engines over here (for the equivalent amount of displacement) don't get nearly the MPG that european cars do, and is also the reason diesel cars arent competitive over here like in europe.
Making engines run dirtier is certainly not a good thing, but if they are burning less fuel to begin with, then overall the increase in emissions should not be much greater.
Fiat passes 4 million mark with 1.3 16v MultiJet engine production
The 4 millionth 1.3 16v MultiJet engine left the Fiat Powertrain plant in Bielsko Biala, Poland, on 4 February. Fiat called this a “prestigious achievement” testifying to the great success that this small diesel engine has achieved since 2003. The engine is the evolution of the Common Rail syste...
Oh and Davemart, even if every single state in the US was as large as California, and bought as many electric vehicles as California is projected to buy, electric vehicles would only represent 2.27% of vehicles on the road or 1 in 44 vehicles by 2015.
5,600,000/246,000,000 = 2.27% or 12 times what is actually predicted
Center for Automotive Research releases study on estimated US distribution pattern of electric vehicles through 2015; focus on incentives
The CAR study uses the distribution of hybrid sales as the basis to estimate the distribution of plug-in electric vehicle sales. Source: CAR. Click to enlarge. In a new study, the Center for Automotive Research, an Ann Arbor, Michigan-based nonprofit research organization, is estimating the ...
So the study is saying that by 2015, roughly 0.19% of vehicles on US roads will be electric.
Calculation: Amount of electric vehicles/total vehicle fleet = 469,000/246,000,000 or 0.19%
So after 4 years, some of the best Automotive researchers are predicting electric vehicles will make up 0.19%?
That means that by 2014, 1 out of every 525 cars on the road will be electric, that is a very small amount!
My impressions on electric vehicles are that owners of EVs know that they themselves have changed there Oil usage to zero, but don't quite understand how small of an effect that is on the nationwide scale.
These figures demonstrate the importance of drop-in biofuels (biogasoline and biodiesel). They are not the best fuels from an environmental standpoint, but I see them as the only current solution that will have a noticeable effect on our usage of oil. Because almost all current vehicles could accept biogasoline and biodiesel, the conversion could happen much, much faster than if using new fuels that require new cars to be bought.
For reference the US replaces only 4.9% of vehicles each year. So it would take at least 20 years of vehicles being sold 100 electric or whatever other alternative fuel to replace to fleet, a situation which is highly unlikely.
Now, biofuels pose their own problems, ie. fuel vs. food debate, usage of petroleum based fertilizers, water usage, and many other problems. Drop in biofuels must be done in an organized fashion such that they do not rely on subsidies (corn based ethanol) and that they do not require large tracts of prime farm land.
However, I do see the potential light at the end of the tunnel with advanced biofuels such as Algae and others, which if done correctly can be grown in the middle of the desert, utilize a small amount of water (recycle loop) and require much less land than corn (7-30x per acre density).
Center for Automotive Research releases study on estimated US distribution pattern of electric vehicles through 2015; focus on incentives
The CAR study uses the distribution of hybrid sales as the basis to estimate the distribution of plug-in electric vehicle sales. Source: CAR. Click to enlarge. In a new study, the Center for Automotive Research, an Ann Arbor, Michigan-based nonprofit research organization, is estimating the ...
"For one thing, the critical temperature is only 293°C."
"Here he has gotten his facts wrong: the temp for autoignition of methanol is 385C."
I'm not siding with either one of you here, but these are different values because they are measuring different things.
Critical point, also called a critical state, specifies the conditions (temperature, pressure and sometimes composition) at which a phase boundary ceases to exist.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_temperature
The autoignition temperature or kindling point of a substance is the lowest temperature at which it will spontaneously ignite in a normal atmosphere without an external source of ignition, such as a flame or spark.
Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-ignition_temperature
NREL report estimates gasoline produced from biomass could cost about the same as ethanol
Current case design block flow diagram of thermochemical gasoline from biomass-derived methanol and the methanol-to-gasoline process. Source: NREL. Click to enlarge. A new report from the US Department of Energy’s National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) concludes that gasoline produced v...
Does anyone here have data comparing toxicity to humans of methanol vs gasoline?
Also I agree with Scott, people are always looking for the next fuel out there, which is good and all, but what good does it do if there are no fuel tanks to put it in? The annual turnover rate for vehicles in the US is very low, and it will take at least 15 years for the new fuel to make a noticeable dent in the overall fuel usage of the US fleet. Researching drop-in fuels has the potential to allow us to get off oil MUCH faster, because consumers will not have to make any changes.
Is gasoline really THAT bad, considering it is produced from biomass through an efficient process (Not MTG? Yes I understand it produces more GHG than other fuels, but isn't that effect partially mitigated by the fact that the plants from which it is produced absorb GHG during growth?
NREL report estimates gasoline produced from biomass could cost about the same as ethanol
Current case design block flow diagram of thermochemical gasoline from biomass-derived methanol and the methanol-to-gasoline process. Source: NREL. Click to enlarge. A new report from the US Department of Energy’s National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) concludes that gasoline produced v...
I agree this truck is definitely overdone and overcomplicated, but I also know the truck market is very different from the car market. With this design your going to get an increase in fuel mileage, and even a small bump in mileage on a truck makes a huge difference.
In addition you'll get additional torque from the motor, something RAM could use as a selling point vs other trucks. From my experience torque ratings are one of the largest selling points on a truck.
And lastly you get the ability to use the truck as a 240V capable power station for contractors. I could see many contractors liking the ability to pull up to the jobsite with equipment in the bed, and being able to power everything from a drill to a 240V welder with their truck. This could definitely increase its saleability as a fleet vehicle.
In all, the truck isnt optimized for fuel efficiency, but I do feel it is optimized for the market it will be sold in.
Chrysler/DOE Ram PHEV project exploring battery life modeling
The RAM plug-in hybrid truck. Click to enlarge. Chrysler is showcasing its two-mode Ram Truck Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV), equipped with a 12 kWh, 33 Ah cell, 355V Li-ion battery pack from Electrovaya, at the Washington DC Auto Show. The RAM Plug-in Hybrid development was initiate...
"George, some engines run a diesel engine using mostly natural gas, with a small amount of diesel to initiate the combustion."
@3PeaceSweet: I was not aware of this. Sounds like a great way to get diesel-like efficiency while also reducing emissions.
Also I agree, series hybrid (a-la diesel locomotive) when applied to buses, definitely makes sense when compared to a power split architecture.
Siemens series hybrid drive system Elfa reduces fuel consumption in buses by about one-third
City buses equipped with the new Siemens series hybrid drive system Elfa consume one-third less fuel than conventional buses, according to the company. Rather than powering the rear axle via an automatic transmission, as usually, the diesel engine in the Elfa system drives a generator that uses ...
This sounds like it has a similar advantage as Algae based biofuels.
1) A higher energy per acre density. (Although not quite the 7-30x claimed by algae companies)
2) A lower requirement for water and fertilizer
3) Ability to grow on "semi-arid, degraded, NON-cropland" meaning that with the right incentives it will NOT compete with food.
I am quite surprised this is the first I have heard of using agave for biofuels.
Researchers determine Agave is a high-yielding bioenergy crop
Scientists found that in 14 independent studies, the yields of two Agave species greatly exceeded the yields of other biofuel feedstocks, such as corn, soybean, sorghum, and wheat. Additionally, even more productive Agave species that have not yet been evaluated exist. Agaves are succulents with...
Chokepoints such as this scare the crap out of me.
Just look at what Russia did when they wanted to teach Ukraine a lesson.
"The dispute reached a crescendo on January 1, 2006, when Russia cut off all gas supplies passing through Ukrainian territory."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_gas_disputes
The Suez chokepoint
The US Energy Information Administration recently updated its brief on world oil transit chokepoints—one of which is Egypt’s Suez Canal. The EIA defines chokepoints as narrow channels along widely used global sea routes, some so narrow that vessel size is restricted. They are a critical part of ...
"the use of good corp land"
"It will probably be the same with Agave."
Somehow I get the feeling that people aren't even fully reading the articles posted on GCC anymore, or they just make wild assumptions.
Researchers determine Agave is a high-yielding bioenergy crop
Scientists found that in 14 independent studies, the yields of two Agave species greatly exceeded the yields of other biofuel feedstocks, such as corn, soybean, sorghum, and wheat. Additionally, even more productive Agave species that have not yet been evaluated exist. Agaves are succulents with...
Good to see someone finally found a good way to apply diesel locomotive technology to buses. Now you have a simplified engine that can be tuned to run optimally at a set RPM with varying loads.
Mahonj, can you elaborate on efficiency advantage of CNG? It is my understanding that diesels run more efficiently, especially at low RPM when compared to a spark ignited engine.
Siemens series hybrid drive system Elfa reduces fuel consumption in buses by about one-third
City buses equipped with the new Siemens series hybrid drive system Elfa consume one-third less fuel than conventional buses, according to the company. Rather than powering the rear axle via an automatic transmission, as usually, the diesel engine in the Elfa system drives a generator that uses ...
Electric power steering poses several problems of its own. Even in small applications heat buildup is an issue due to the fact that the motor is sealed and not continuously spinning to allow a cooling fan. I would assume they are going with an electro-hydraulic system for larger applications to prevent motor burnout
TRW Automotive to supply electrically powered hydraulic steering for a range of light commercial vans
TRW’s EPHS system features its own motor pump unit that supplies power on demand to enable steering assist independent of the engine, saving fuel and reducing emissions. Click to enlarge. TRW Automotive Holdings Corp. says it has landed a major contract win to supply a range of vehicle manuf...
One of the main reasons the ecoboost maintains such high efficiencies at partial load is that is utilizes an "Ultra lean burn" mode when not at max throttle.
Fuel is injected at the later stages of the compression stroke, rather than during the intake stroke, causing a locally rich region near the spark plug, inhibiting detonation, whilst having a globally lean mixture.
You can imagine it as a miniature explosion near the center of the piston rather than a flamehead that moves across the entire piston face.
A direct injection engine is not by itself going to get much better efficiency than other engines at maximum load, however, by combining DI with variable valve timing, turbocharging, and engine downsizing, ford has come up with an engine that is exceptionally efficient at any RPM and throttle position.
3.5L EcoBoost 2011 F-150 bests Silverado and RAM trucks with 5+L V8s in performance test
The 2011 Ford F-150 EcoBoost won in a head-to-head powertrain performance exercise while towing a 9,000-pound (4,082 kg) trailer against the Chevy Silverado and Dodge RAM with much larger displacement V8 engines during a demonstration staged by Ford near Davis Dam in Arizona. The head-to-head co...
There are plenty of reasons besides government that make it hard to import diesels into the US. For example, over here we have much tighter emissions standards for diesels, 0.07 grams per mile of NO2 versus 0.29 in europe. For this reason the entire emissions system would have to be reworked on european cars, which often leads to a reduction in efficiency.
See Here: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/diesel/4330313
Chevrolet Cruze Eco achieves EPA-rated 42 mpg on highway (updated table)
The non-hybrid 2011 Chevrolet Cruze Eco delivers an EPA-estimated 42 mpg on the highway (manual transmission models), with city fuel economy of 28 mpg. Cruze Eco’s highway fuel economy beats non-hybrid segment competitors—including 23% greater highway fuel economy than the Honda Civic—as well as...
Edit: I meant to say low voltage, high current electricity on the order of 300 Kilo Amps
Survey Finds Many Americans Have a Very Poor Understanding of Energy Use and Savings
Mean perceptions of energy used or saved as a function of actual energy used or saved for 15 devices and activities. The diagonal dashed line represents perfect accuracy. Inset: Individual regression curves for 30 randomly selected participants. Source: Attari et al. Click to enlarge. A new ...
"In fact, the reverse is true: A glass bottle requires 1.4 times as much energy as an aluminum can when virgin materials are used and 20 times as much energy when recycled materials are used."
Im pretty sure this has been misinterpreted several times in the comments thread. I believe they are comparing the energy differences between aluminum vs glass bottle manufacturing in two separate situations, virgin and recycled materials. Thus you can not directly compare virgin glass vs recycled glass cost directly from this statement. All its saying is that with recycled materials either aluminum is cheaper or glass is more expensive.
From a manufacturing perspective, I would assume that most of the difference between using virgin and recycled materials is that virgin aluminum has to first be extracted from bauxite using the Hall–Héroult process, an extremely energy intensive process involving electrolysis using high voltage carbon electrodes. The main difference here is that recycled aluminum only has to be remelted and purified, which explains why you can get money for it at the recycle center.
Hope this clears things up
Survey Finds Many Americans Have a Very Poor Understanding of Energy Use and Savings
Mean perceptions of energy used or saved as a function of actual energy used or saved for 15 devices and activities. The diagonal dashed line represents perfect accuracy. Inset: Individual regression curves for 30 randomly selected participants. Source: Attari et al. Click to enlarge. A new ...
I believe what makes this technology so viable is its scalability. There are not many parts of the system, ie microbes or catalysts, that are sensitive to changes in size. More plasma torches and more after treatment systems = more garbage processed and more energy produced. I envision a time when most large municipal waste processing plants have a unit like this installed.
If enough of these are built we could significantly reduce waste to landfills, recover the slag and byproducts for use in new materials, create biofuels, and generate electricity all at the same time.
Provided the thermodynamics of the system work out (meaning it produces more energy than it uses) I can't see many roadblocks to scaling the technology.
AFE to Use Plasma Gasification of Waste in 25MW Power Project in Milwaukee
Alliance Federated Energy (AFE) last week announced the development of “Project Apollo,” a $225-million, 25MW energy project located in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Project Apollo plans to utilize Westinghouse Plasma Corp.’s (WPC) plasma gasification technology to process municipal and industrial waste...
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