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HaitiOrphanProj
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I think I'm agreeing with Lydia, at least in this aspect (if I understand you correctly Lydia, and will wonders never cease?): I think this person is permanently disqualified form pastoral ministry. Paul says, "The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.” 17 But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him. 18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body." There seems to be some special note by the Lord for sexual sin. "Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body." He may be restored spiritually and may can serve in some fashion for the church, but in my opinion and understanding of the scriptures he is permanently barred. In addition, I cannot see how EVER he can serve involving children. In any way. FWIW. Les
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Mary, I apologize if you thought I was calling you a hypocrite or accusing you of bashing and blasting and vitriolic. I was not calling you those things. I was quoting you. Should have used """ marks. Have a blessed evening. Les
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Will do Peter. Sorry. And Mary, Tur should have been try.
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Byron, I meant no offense to you and I certainly was not offended. Byron, not afraid at all. Les
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Hi Mary. Vitriol and James White? You call me a two faced hypocrite? And I "bash and blast?" I really Tur not to, but if you can quote me bashing and blasting, I'll own up to it and beg pardon. Have a blessed evening Mary.
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Lydia, I base my beliefs on the bible. You can continue to look silly by saying otherwise, as if you have insight into my heart, but my beliefs are biblical no matter how much your dislike of Calvin leads you to say such things. Ruling really bothers you...authority issues? Evangelist for Calvin? Read what I wrote to Byron and square that with this ridiculous statement. Les
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Lydia, I don't know. Never been to Geneva. Your question is not relevant to Byron's situation.
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Byron, I understand. I really do. I've had two experiences with folks in situations very similar to yours. One kept rejecting the gospel for almost 10 years. But God...! He was saved by God and now serves in Christian ministry for a number of years now. The other? Well I have not given up after about 5 years. He's still breathing the air God has provided. So I hope, pray and persist. You'll need to find another Calvinist to engage you on theology questions. You can have some intellectual understand, but until you're born again you'll never really get it. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. You've read that too. Jesus said, "Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” (Matthew 11:28-30 ESV) I urge you to find rest in Him. Les
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Peter, I commented right after you on this and it disappeared. I must not have hit submit. "You would be presumptuous to assume Byron has not been engaged at length here and elsewhere." I apologize if I came across as presumptuous. I certainly didn't mean it that way. I was referring to today's comments to Byron. We never know that the Word we share today or our words will be the very ones on this day that God will use to prick a sinners heart and open it for salvation.
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Marvin and Lydia, Surely you two have heard of such a thing as what some call divine appointments, right? Where God orchestrates the timing such that a preacher preaches (or a person opens the scripture to an individual) and the Holy Spirit opens the person's heart right then and there? Or the next day or the next week. See that other famous Lydia. Marvin, had to look up that word interstitial . I found, "situated within but not restricted to or characteristic of a particular organ or tissue —used especially of fibrous tissue." You'll have to come at that question again brother. See I have all confidence that I can explain the gospel to someone and trust that God can save. Right then and there. Or maybe later. Of maybe never (since we all know that salvation is of the Lord said Jonah and we also know that not everyone will be saved). God can handle it. If I urge someone to seek the Lord I'm trusting that if they do genuinely seek Him for forgiveness that what Jonah said is happening. Simple as that. Les
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"The practical application of Calvinism does not work." As some have repeated numerous times. If we would just be consistent!! Darn those Calvinist missionaries and preachers. What do they think they're doing? What could William Carey have been thinking? Or David Brainerd? Oh well.
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Marvin, "You are not a Calvinist like MacArthur, Piper, or Sproul. They would never tell a man to seek God in light of Romans 3:11." Well, being a Calvinist like those men of God is not my goal. My goal is to try and be faithful to scripture. But for the record, I don't think you know of what you speak. I am ordained in the same denomination as Sproul. That doesn't mean we have the exact same view on evangelism. But if you have some evidence that Sproul would not tell a lost person to seek God after explaining the gospel, I would sure be open to it. Ss For Pper, I've met him once and read some of his sermons. I don't think you're right, but I have no first hand experience. As for MacArthur, I've actually spent some time with him over the years and actually have had this discussion. You're mistaken. Les
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Hi Marvin. "Are you kidding me?!?" No, not at all. Byron's eternal state is not a kidding matter. Would that more on here would engage him praying all the while that God will open his heart as He did Lydia in Acts. "You, a five-point Calvinist, telling an apparently lost man to "seek" The Lord? I thought you and your kind believe that no man seeks after God? So how can he seek God, except the Holy Spirit draw him?!?!" Brother, you have thought wrong. Maybe someone misled you. Calvinists, while not always as faithful as we should be...even as non-Calvinists have not always been faithful, have always preached the gospel and told hearers to seek God. We know that if God is in it at that time in the person's life they will indeed seek him. Sometimes it's later on, as was the case with me. I heard the preacher scores of times tell me the same thing. Over years. Problem was I didn't want to. Then the Holy Spirit opened my heart and I sought Him and exercised my newly freed will and repented and believed. "You Calvinists drive me nuts with your circular and self-contradictory theology." Sorry we drive you nuts, however you classify it. I'm still praying God will open Byron's heart. Today! Les
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Byron, I appreciate your question to me. I'd rather focus on you though. I want to say that I'm very sorry that you have apparently apostatized from the faith. I can only assume then that you never had genuine faith. You probably have much head knowledge about the scriptures and the gospel in particular. So, I urge you and plead with you to seek the Lord while He may be found. If you are still breathing then the day of salvation is today. Repent of your sin and trust in the one true God to save you by way of faith in His Son the Savior of sinners. Don't delay Byron. The Lord of the universe stands ready to forgive you and save you. You have violated God's law, and have incurred His just wrath and condemnation. You are guilty. But the good news is that Jesus Christ came to save sinners, that all who are to be saved must turn from their sins and embrace the Savior by faith. So today, Byron, turn from your sins and embrace Jesus by faith. Then we can talk about assurance, etc. I'm praying to that end for you right now Byron. Les
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Peter, I'd like to buy one as well. How do we buy it if not going to the conference? the Old Adam, "The Achilles heel of Calvinism, as with many other forms of Christianity, is that one must look inward for any assurance of salvation." No so brother. The Achillies is in tact and in good shape. "You (Calvinists and sympathizers) can keep Calvinism." Thanks. We will. Les
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I understand what Tozer is trying to communicate. I agree with his words, "That my great High Priest will keep me, I have no doubt. Will He do so because of my goodness? No! Will He keep you because of your goodness? Again, no! We are kept because He is at the throne of God interceding for us." I think we all can agree with that. I think that we all, Calvinist or Non Calvinist, recognize that when we pray for someone to be saved that if that person is going to be saved it will be because only God can save. Really, when we pray for that, all our understandings or misunderstandings about man's will go out the window. None of us prays for a person to have more will or such. We recognize that God must act for anyone to be saved.
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You're welcome Peter. Always good for people to see quotes in context. I don't have his book so I'm thankful to have found the Google books link. It helped me better understand what he was communicating. Blessings.
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Yes, I'm glad there are no stocks around too. In fact, I'm about to think some stocks would be rolled out for me (if they were still around) over at another well read SBC blog because of my paedobaptism views! :)
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Lydia, BTW the "y'all keep saying that" was just an acknowledgment.
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Hi Lydia. "his broader explanation is pure Greek philosophy that Augustine brought into the picture, Luther, an Augustinian monk agreed with and Calvin systematized." Yep, y'all keep saying that. Blessings. Les
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I don;t have Palmer's book. But searching the quote itself, I found this link on Google Books. It does help to see the quote in the fuller context. Maybe others would like to see it too. http://books.google.com/books?id=wNVBqbTr3CkC&pg=PT70&lpg=PT70&dq=And,+the+Calvinist+freely+admits+that+his+position+is+illogical,+ridiculous,+nonsensical,+and+foolish+edwin+palmer&source=bl&ots=gwNf8j-sMt&sig=Bfdt2YQexnAJhYJopWQaGWRXLzc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gAMgUf-uJI6E9QSh6YCIDA&ved=0CFoQ6AEwBg Les
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Dec 15, 2012