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Jason
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Blocking this site so I won't be tempted to read it anymore.
Toggle Commented Feb 11, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
you had no friends Going to lunch with 3 friends today. you couldn't get a date Went on one last week. She seems to want to go on another one. your family argued Since we quit talking about politics, we get along fine. your co-workers didn't like you I don't recall ever saying that my coworkers didn't like me. I get along fine with my coworkers.
Toggle Commented Feb 11, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
Well, if you display a flagrant lack of social skills, what the fuck do you expect? Oddly the only place where I don't seem to get along with people is here. Weird that is.....
Toggle Commented Feb 11, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
@mmy- If you wish to have a conversation with people you have previously been rude, offensive and dismissive to then apologize without "may haves" and "handled poorly." This is not about you Jason -- it is about how you treated some of us. Well, you owe me an apology for all of your stupid conjecture about why I did what I did and calling me stupid and telling me I have no social skills and all that other crap and I'm not going to get an apology for that, so it looks like we're at an impasse.
Toggle Commented Feb 11, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
If I stop posting everyone talks about how ashamed they are of me and posts all these "Jason, if you're still listening...." posts. If I come back then I get "ooooh, you said you weren't coming back!" posts. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I guess.
Toggle Commented Feb 11, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
I have thought about this. While most of the concerns I have about the community still stand, it was wrong of me to take such a harsh and aggressive tone in expressing those concerns. It was wrong of me to express those concerns in a manner that was accusatory and implied that TBAT was being dishonest. It was wrong of me to bring those concerns up in a manner that was insensitive to and ignored the needs other members of the community. It was also wrong of me to think this community would be one thing when the majority of its members do not want it to be that. I still like the majority of the members of this community and do not want to leave with them having ill will towards me, so I am posting this. However the language directed towards me over the past day has been exceedingly patronizing, treating me as if I was either a small child or someone with an emotionally stunting mental illness. I have seen many posts that have implied that I have the intelligence of a kindergartner, said that I have no social skills and used little patronizing names like "honey pie". I have sat here and read all kinds of speculation as to why I am upset that has assigned ridiculously cartoonish motives to my actions. I get the impression from the language used that a number of you think I am some sort of emotionally stunted, developmentally disabled, socially regressed man-child and I do not appreciate it. If you want to know the reason for my silence, that is it. Some of you have been perfectly polite. However a number of you have sat here and directed rather hurtful insults towards me that don't technically sound like insults because they are worded nicely and then wondered why I kept getting angry. Many times in a conflict both sides are at fault. I'm willing to admit that I may have behaved less than admirably and handled my criticisms of the community poorly. However that is as far as I'm willing to go until someone here is willing to acknowledge all of the backhanded insults that have been thrown in my direction. Good day.
Toggle Commented Feb 11, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
@Kit- If you think being ignored is a bad thing when it happens to you, stop ignoring that. So its my fault my post was ignored? I guess everything is always my fault. I used to think well of you. I don't any more. That feeling is mutual on both counts. ..and please stop trying to psychoanalyze me. You are still telling me that you know better than I do what I am thinking and that is insulting.
Toggle Commented Feb 10, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
Ok, Kit, whatever. I'm glad to see you have such a mastery of psychiatrics that you know exactly what I'm thinking and what's going through my head. Care to do detailed character analysis of other people here. Your wisdom of exactly what makes people tick would just be soooo fascinating. Step right up everyone! Kit's gonna tell you what you are thinking because she knows you better than you know yourself. If you'll look back. I have popped in a couple of times earlier to defend Ruby. Those comments were mostly just ignored. I think that does it for me.
Toggle Commented Feb 10, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
@L David Wheeler- Because, after all these years, Kit and Hapax and mmy have earned my trust, earned the community's trust. Are you really saying they haven't earned yours? Are you really implying that these three people are lying -- or that, at any rate, you won't believe they're justified unless you see the particular posts yourself? No, I don't think any of them were lying and I am sorry that I came across that way. I never meant to imply that they were lying. There are some interactions that I had with TBAT in the past that I was still upset about, but I don't really want to dredge those up, because I'm tired of fighting and being angry. I'll put that behind me and I'm sorry that I let that color my opinion of how this was handled. However those interactions did contribute to me not feeling particularly comfortable here. While its true I do have some criticism about how the atheist roundtable was handled, this was an extremely poor time for me to bring it up and I'm sorry that I let my emotions about the current state of the community cloud my judgment. @Deird- Jason, I have thought for several days now that one of the problems you're having is that you've decided snarking at people is bad for you - and have promptly SET OUT ON A MISSION to make sure that other people shouldn't do that either. I decided it was bad for me for 2 reasons. I started actively seeking things to snark on and then that was starting to make me kind of angry and bitter from reading crap that I disagree with vehemently all of the time. Some of the things I was saying were hurting people I really love. In fact I seem to be incapable of expressing an opinion without hurting someone I care about recently, but yet I feel the need to express myself. It sucks. ..but I'm ok with other people snarking or I wouldn't read Fred's Left Behind posts or some of the other blogs that I read.
Toggle Commented Feb 10, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
Now that I've calmed down a little bit. Some thoughts. a) I was under the impression that the reason that this community was created was mainly because patheos was not particularly a friendly place for atheists and some of the Christian commentators over there were a little more conservative and made some people here uncomfortable and this was merely an attempt to keep the old space for those who wanted. b) I intended to comment both places originally. I found the user interface at patheos buggy and difficult to use, so I ended up mainly hanging around here. I expected this place to be pretty much more of the same and that the people would just be split up between the 2 places. c) It has become obvious to me that I was making assumptions that were necessarily true. I honestly find this place to be a little too heavily moderated and regulated. I also no longer always find the topics interesting. This isn't really anyone's fault other than my own. I was expecting this place to be something that it is not. Obviously everyone else prefers it the way it is. I do not. That's not really anyone's fault and I shouldn't have come in here trying to change it to the way it was before. I should probably just go to patheos slacktivist and see if they have fixed the bugs in the UI where it is useable. I apologize for ignoring everyone else's wishes. If you want a place that is moderated more heavily than before and that has trigger warnings so as to make sure that no one feels upset or threatened, then you should be able to have that and I'm sorry for not being tolerant of that. I personally find all that stuff to be kind of stifling, but I think that just means I shouldn't be here. This place is intended for people other than me. I don't think that I'm alone in being someone who was a part of this community at its inception who is not particularly satisfied with what it has become, Ruby being one of others. ..but maybe that's our problem and we should leave and let you do what you want to do with it. Sorry to have upset and offended, but I really don't think this place is for me anymore.
Toggle Commented Feb 9, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
..and that doesn't mean that I think you are all horribly wrong and I'm being terribly mistreated. It means that I'm so angry that my hands are shaking and I think its best I wait until later to say anything more.
Toggle Commented Feb 9, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
I am too angry to discuss this any farther right now. Considering that I feel like several of the recent posts were an attack on my intelligence, such as being compared to someone in kindergarten, I think its best that I not comment anymore until everyone has cooled off. ..and I'm including myself in "everyone" I can't read anymore 5 paragraph tirades about how heartless and thoughtless I am and I can't listen to Izzy tell me what a moron I am anymore. I'll be back later when I've had time to think about this. Maybe.
Toggle Commented Feb 9, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
Umm Kit, You totally misread what I wrote. I said using the c-word is never appropriate. ..but up until he started with that shit, he wasn't doing anything wrong. I wouldn't have come to his defense, if I knew he was going to do that. I also was not saying you were lying. I believe the "trolls" were there, but I've seen a bunch of people being called trolls before they did something that I felt was worthy of being called trolling. J-theist was one of those. Then he used the c-word. That pretty much ruined any assumption of good faith I was willing to give him. My point was that you call people trolls sometimes before they do anything other than disagree. If you don't agree that trigger warnings are worth respecting I also never said that. I said I thought they were overused.
Toggle Commented Feb 9, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
In fact, I recently have toned down my own writing, because I realized that often I had degraded into personally attacking people who I disagreed with and namecalling and that needed to stop.
Toggle Commented Feb 9, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
@mmy- Well, the fact of the matter is this. Froborr wrote an article about atheism. A large number of atheists disliked it and disagreed with it and didn't think it particularly represented their viewpoint. I haven't seen much consideration for that other than attacking anyone who doesn't like what he wrote. You say its because we've had this huge influx of trolls, but a large number of those trolls I haven't been able to see. Yes, I thought J-theist got out of hand *after I came to his defense.* Defending use of the c-word was not cool. However you posted an article that presumptuous about a large group of people. It labelled them as "evil." I wouldn't have cared for that either had I been in their shoes. I don't blame them for being angry. It is very unfortunate that a number of them have chosen hateful and nasty ways to express their disgust, but many expressed their ideas in what I thought was a reasonable manner, albeit a bit hostile, but anyone who just got called "evil" would react with hostility. I don't particularly like atheists who try to deconvert me or think my religion is necessarily bad for me. One thing I learned from ye old slacktivist is that I can dislike that without calling the person horrible names and telling them what an awful person they are. I don't really think you can have a productive conversation without occasionally upsetting someone or making someone uncomfortable. There were plenty of times I came here and left upset and uncomfortable. That was good for me. I learned from it. I'm just a little concerned that this place has become so concerned with being "safe" for everyone that it is becoming a big echochamber, because you aren't welcome unless you agree with most people. ..and now it seems like you're doing an Atheism 101, but only with certain preapproved types of atheists.
Toggle Commented Feb 9, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
@Lonespark- I wrote one. I tried very hard to make it accessible to a general audience, but we all have blind spots. Can you elaborate on what you mean here? I have a basic knowledge of mythology. Mostly from what I learned in school but a little from Ray Harryhausen movies that used to run on TBS, which I'm sure mangled the mythos horribly. I guess I kind of need a 101. Also it used to be when I disagreed with the majority, I would think "People probably won't like this but I'll post it anyway. We'll either reach some middle ground or I'll eventually understand why I'm wrong and we'll be ok eventually. Worst case scenario we go into flamewar mode." In the abstract about commenting: I feel like we enter flamewar mode almost immediately anymore, which makes me not ever want to post anything in disagreement. Being told what a horrible person I was and how I should be ashamed used to come after pages of me not getting the point. Now it comes in like 2 posts. It just seems like a less friendly place now. I don't feel like I could have come here at the point I was 4 years ago where I was still listening to Fox News and have anything happen other than me being labelled a troll and cursed out immediately. Then leave and stop demanding that everyone who's worked hard to make it what it is tailor it for your personal preference, you entitled ass! I guess because I still like a lot of the people here quite a bit and it feels weird that a place where I used to learn and discuss things and make e-friends seems like a completely different and foreign place where I feel like an outsider.
Toggle Commented Feb 9, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
@Kit- Wow. I guess I'm just supposed to sit still and let you tell me everything I'm doing wrong, and point out no areas of your ignorance, and say nothing in my own defence, point out no areas of ignorance in your context. No, I'd just kind of like you to meet me in the middle. I don't feel like you'll actually listen to anything I say. You'll just tell me why I'm being a bad person and what a hard time you're having. I feel like that's what you did to Ruby and that's why I brought it up. On the subject of what conversations have been coming up, that does seem like something one can change? While I do desire to learn about other people's faith, sometimes the posts on other faiths are written in a manner that I don't really understand what is being discussed, particularly the pagan religions. I truly do want to learn what others believe, but those particular posts sail right over my head. I would find the basics of those beliefs an easier starting point. I'd like more posts on social justice issues such as the ones Fred used to address. I like what Fred writes because he points out things that are wrong and explains why. I came to slacktivist because I didn't like Left Behind. His pointing out other areas where the emperor has no clothes helped me change my mind about a lot of things, particularly when I would attempt to argue from my side and would invariably lose.
Toggle Commented Feb 9, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
@Lonespark- So, you haven't been commenting much or submitting guest posts (that I know of, obviously, not being TBAT, I don't have all the data...), but all of the people who have been doing those things, as well as administering the board through an extended attack of vicious trolls, should totally change because you aren't getting what you want? I haven't done that because to be honest, this is the first time in months that I've really been particularly interested in any of the discussions here and I don't really feel like the type of things that I write fit particularly with the direction that the community has taken. Some of the posts are so wordy and philosophical that I actually don't even really understand what they are talking about. I don't know what I was really expecting, but this is a much different place than it was before Fred left. The conversations about different things. I guess I don't really fit in with what the community has become.
Toggle Commented Feb 9, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
@Kit- I am not going to get less upset with you unless and until you apologise. I am going to get more upset with you the longer you act like apologising to me for doing something completely uncalled-for is something you can just delay until, y'know, you feel like it. The longer you delay, the more convinced I'm going to be that you don't care about anyone's feelings but your own Well, I am upset with you and any attempt I make to point out the reasons why I am upset with you are going to always be manipulated into how hard it is to be a mod, or how all these horrible trolls are coming onto the board which I don't ever see because you delete them all and I have no idea what they are doing, or whatever. I can't criticize anything you do, because it all comes back to you being the martyr. You are doing the same thing to me that you did to Ruby. If someone doesn't like something you do, its always their fault.
Toggle Commented Feb 9, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
Question is ... can you accept that. Seriously ... it is ok to be wrong. I have been many times in my life. What matters is what you do after you've been wrong. ...because I've never, ever, ever once admitted I was wrong in my entire history of posting here. That's never happened. @Lonespark- You chose not ask for any warnings related sports and bullying, but that's your choice and you have no right to make other people make the same choices. You also spoke about how bothered you are by cursing, and that's your choice and we're trying to respect it and if people mess it up I'm deeply sorry. Who are you to choose what's "silly" in this context? I'm not bothered by cursing. I am bothered by getting violently cursed out by a specific member of this community who would curse people out at the drop of the hat, before even attempting to discuss anything civilly. If you said something that person didn't like, you got cursed out. Immediately. Sometimes paragraphs worth of f-bombs and generally any other person in the community would find a more civil way of telling you that they disagreed. I had an issue with that person's cursing. That person is gone. It wasn't triggering to me. It was just rude and put me off from wanting to be a part of the discussion, because I was afraid anytime I disagreed with that individual I would have to read pages of invective. Its mainly that this place used to have really interesting discussions that I learned a lot from. I learned a lot about oppression and privilege from commenting here, but now it seems like everyone is trying sooo sooo sooo sooooo hard to make sure no one is ever uncomfortable here ever, that it neuters the conversation. @Kit- Why? Couldn't find a way to make it sound like you were protecting the community's best interests from, er, the community? I don't feel like discussing that right now. Maybe later when we are both less upset.
Toggle Commented Feb 9, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
Well, how exactly are we defining PTSD? Are we talking about debilitating flashbacks that cause people to be essentially non-functional? Because that's what PTSD is. That's what trigger warnings are for. Topics that make someone uncomfortable because of something that happened in their past are not PTSD. I don't like to play kickball. Kickball reminds me of gym class in middle school which was not a fun time. I can think of few experiences in my life that were more unpleasant that being forced to go to gym class, play a sport badly, and then be ridiculed for it. Anytime I play kickball, even if it is with people I know will not ridicule me or make fun of me, I feel like I am in middle school gym class again, just because its kickball. You cannot and will not get me to play a game of kickball. That being said, I don't think kickball is a trigger and I don't need trigger warnings for kickball. I could play a game of kickball if for some reason I absolutely had to. I'm concerned that we are calling things PTSD that aren't actually that.
Toggle Commented Feb 9, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
@Lonespark- But it's a good idea to differentiate the way you make your arguments from the way people make them when they don't care who they hurt or disrespect. Your comment above doesn't do that. Well, I basically feel like the climate here is that if you disagree with the way TBAT is doing things, you get your posts edited or moved over to ROT13, which doesn't exactly make me feel charitable towards this community. Lately everyone I agree who posts here. with is being called an asshole, a troll, or a misogynist, with the exception of Ruby and whenever Ruby expresses disagreement Kit reads her a laundry list of her faults, so I'm not really feeling like this is a place where I can disagree peaceably. Some people deserved to get treated that way. I feel bad for defending J-theist, because then he went and tried to defend the use of the c-word which crossed waaay over the line, but the environment now is "assume the person who disagrees is a troll until proven otherwise" and I don't like it.
Toggle Commented Feb 9, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
Most of us who have criticized your use of trigger warnings do not have a problem with trigger warnings, in and of themselves. I use them in my own writing. I have a problem with making the umbrella of things that could be potentially triggering so large that we are trigger warning for anything and everything under the sun. Transhumanism is not a real thing. It is, by and large, a fictional concept. Putting trigger warnings on things that do not exist is disrespectful and trivializes the pain of those who are dealing with actual PTSD. I understand that the person who requested that transhumanism have a TW did so because the post in question had some reference to animal abuse. Why not trigger warn for animal abuse, since that is a real thing that actually exists. If you want a trigger warning for transhumanism, your name better be Jean Luc Picard. I don't have a problem with trigger warnings. I have a problem with using them so often and for such a widely varied collection of things that they lose their power and become basically like the boy who cried wolf. I'll check in later today, so that I can see all of the responses, where I get called a troll and a misogynist. Good day.
Toggle Commented Feb 9, 2012 on Managing the discussion at The Slacktiverse
@mmy- I want to know whether you aren't "particularly interested" in what this was doing to other readers of this board or if you just don't bloody care that some of us might have rather "hair trigger" responses to possible trolling after we have been called by the most vile epithets that the trolls could think of. A lot the trolling got deleted before I had a chance to read it. I haven't had a lot of time to read this site during the day. Also perhaps there is something that I missed. @Amaryllis- Just think about it for a bit, okay? I will. I'm starting to understand where people are coming from a little more, but it just has seemed like if you disagree with the majority here, you get shouted down and called names before you can explain where you are coming from and that bothers me.
Toggle Commented Feb 3, 2012 on Board Post, February 2 2012 at The Slacktiverse
@mmy- I was not aware of you asking me any questions. I see one post from you since I've been on this thread and it is made up entirely of statements. @AnaMardoll- That makes sense. Thank you for explaining and explaining it without telling me what an evil horrible misogynist I am. I understand now and I'm sorry I brought it up. I'm going away for a while because I don't think my being around is doing any good.
Toggle Commented Feb 3, 2012 on Board Post, February 2 2012 at The Slacktiverse