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Andrea
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i have too many contacts from facebook, google plus and msn, if you just implement meta-contacts i will start using it right now!
second question :-) there is some "import settings" from kopete? which features i will not find working if i switch to telepathy?
does it support meta-contacts (like kopete)?
"i took initiation for one purpose only: to learn the shabd meditation practice. i did not take intitation to get a guru (what you call a "master"). i did not take initiation because i needed a guru, or to have a guru. i took initiation for the purpose of exploring the meditation practice. thats all." Ok so you took only a little slice of Sant Mat. Just the one you like(d). It's obvious that the result isn't good, it din'nt worked and it was unsatisfiyng! Sant Mat is not just a meditation practice but a lifestyle that contains (among other things) also meditation. But Masters of Sant Mat say to meditate, AND to have a certain relationship with the Master, other satsangis, having a vegetarian diet, relating in a strictly defined way with work, love relationship, diet... You can't take only some part of it and then criticize the whole thing. Masters clearly say that practice will not work if the other parts of the Path are not taken in consideration. Masters cleraly say that they give PROOF of the existence of God, of Beyond, of Soul travels. If you want i can quote Soami Ji Maharaj, he always says these things. So you "accepted" to be initiated in SM meditation just in half way, and the result is just a half-result. You never believed in the words of the Master whom you asked to be teached a form of meditation. Your way of relating to him was just wrong: during initiation you agreed to do a certain lifestile and accepted him as a Master (initiation is also this!) but then you just did some meditation and left all the rest. Of course it didn't worked! Every scientific experiment works ONLY if all the conditions are satisfied. Now you can't say that a whole SM lifestile don't work... you never tried.
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Everybody can read and see what i'm saying. Can I ask you just a question? There is only one thing that i can't understand about you. You decided to take initiation by a Master. Why? Exacly why? If that Master never gave to you some proof of his words and teaching... Then you remained in his sangat doing his practices for 30 years! That's incredible! But why you did this? You needed 30 years to realize that this Master, this teachings and this practice are not working for you? And now you go on making this sort of crusade against that? For me, this is just absurd.
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tao, you wrote this: "Sant Mat is not just "Beas"." -- thats more or less incorrect. there are other 'versions' of sant mat (like yours)... but as i pointed out above, shiv dayal singh originated and formalized what is now known as "sant mat", which was later carried by jaimal singh, and then propagated and elaborated upon even more so by sawan singh, as well as by the original Agra branch. there is no other "sant mat" extant. your different interpretation(s) is based upon an unauthorized off-shoot of what originally started from shiv dayal singh. your ideas may seem reasonable to you (and ro your guru), but those ideas are not at all what the traditional sant mat of its originator, shiv dayal singh, teaches. "The first Master of my Master was Sant Kirpal Singh and He was a disciple of Sawan Singh (Beas lineage) and his writings and teachings are in line with my first comment." -- no, kirpal singh was not. kirpal was a disciple of sawan singh, but, kirpal went off on his own independently and stated his own unauthorized branch. the lineage was not passed to kirpal. and although kirpal retained alot of formal elements of the teaching, he also departed from that in some ways. and so did kirpal's successors darshan & rajinder, and thakur (another unauthorized off-shoot). you and your guru can think and believe whatever you like, but aspects of your interpretation is definitely not what the formal sant mat of shiv dayal singh teaches. so don't pretend that it is. your notions are just your own altered interpretations. and that goes for your guru as well. and now you say that "Beas does not claim to be the only "style of teaching", and no one here (on this blog) has said that it was the only "official" teaching or branch. so you have some assumptions that are mistaken." so at least find YOUR truth in your thoughts ;-)
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wow, too many comments to reand and answer :-) 1)Roger: yes, sometimes happens to discuss about meanings of inner experiences. During initiation every disciple tells his experience with both meditations: light and sound. At least this happens in my Master's sangat, and in Ajaib Singh's and Kirpal Singh's too. For the rest, we are encouraged to thalk to our Master about our experiences, and sometimes happens that he decides to make public some of them for some special reason. I think that somebody who meditated for decades many and many hours per day is able to understand what process happens during meditation. Just like a doctor with 10 years of experience can understand things better than a student of medicine. 2)Tara: it's very simple. If in Beas they claim that sant mat is the only good way and others go to hell... you are just right. But Beas style of teaching Sant Mat is not the only one, nor the "official" one, there are many branches in India and in the rest of the world. There are at least 3 radhasoami official branches, and at least (i'm just thinking right now) 10 different living Masters of Sant Mat now in the world. They have their sangat and disciples and no one can say they are "fake" just because they are not Beas. Sawan Singh left 4 or 5 successors. Soami Ji Maharaj the same. And they of course left their successors and sometimes more than one. If Beas branch nowadays say that they are the only one, the better, the only right path, they are simply wrong and this is not the real Sant Mat way of thinking. In Adi Granth they are quoted a lot of Masters, not just of the sikh lineage but also muslims. Kabir is not in the Nanak lineage. My Master reads from Rumi just as from Kabir or Arjan or His Master. So this is just a Beas problem. 3)to tAo, i have nothing to say. Nothing at his level, he is too much beyond me, im too much stupid!
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Inner experience is not a goal nor indicative of some progress. It's a phenomenon that happens, sometimes, in different ways on different people. For someone happens often, for someone it's rare, it depends of the needings of everyone and the way he is made. Discussing about experiences is not so recommended (generally) because they can be misinterpretated, they can cause jealousy or sense of inferiority or superiority. And only somebody that really is competent in that matter can understand well the meaning of experiences. I know many and many people whose life is changed a lot in the Path (i repeat, i'm not on Beas lineage of SM so i cant talk about them), with meditation and the other components of the Path. My life, my mind, sure they changed a lot, in better. I can say that Sant Mat saved my life and the life of many other people. Of course, for somebody else another path will do the same. We are different beings and often we need different spiritual paths. Being too much absolute in thinking that a path is always wrong, for everybody and with every Master, and that because doesn't fit for us it has to be wrong for everybody is just absurd, it's ignorance. It's a pure egocentric belief. And i can say another thing: I don't need to give "proofs" to no one, just as no one can give "proofs" to me that i'm wrong... everyone has his life, and life is a better teacher than outer opinions.
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so exactly what proof you give us that God doesn't exists, that Perfect Masters doesn't exists, that a man as i described before (quoting: "totally honest, wise, humble, generous, and perfect human being") doesn't exists? I see this person one day over two, perhaps i know him better than you. I have my proof, if you want my proofs, take a plane, come in italy, and follow me to meet this Person. You can't say that north pole doesn't exists if you don't want to take a plane! If you want my proofs of existence of inner planes, just come to meditate with my Master, he will show you. Simple! Something is not marked as "unreal" just because you can't proof that. You can say "perhaps is not real", probably, i think... but only stupid people (sorry) say "i know everything". I am always open to know something new.
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yeah, ok, yeah.
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If you actually SEE unicorns, touch them and ride them, then you actually know that unicorns exists. No matter that the rest of the world believe it not or it is sure that they are unreal. OR you can just _believe_ you are crazy and give more value to the point of view of other people instead of your's. If i have to give value to some point of view of the reality, i choose to give more value to mine. So yes, MY experience, for ME, has more value to the experience of somebody else. I think that God exists because MY perception is this... why i should give more value to the perception of somebody else? He is better than me? Why? I think this discussion is going nowhere... and far from the beginning. Why is so a problem for you if there is people who is happy in Sant Mat, or in Chtistianity, or in Comunism or whatever... let them live their life in the way they prefer. I'm happy and satisfied with my lifestile, my Master changed my life in ways you simply can't comprehend, i've seen so many proof and also not believing in his spiritual condition, He is a living example of a totally honest, wise, humble, generous, and perfect human being... just this is enough for me to make me choose to be every moment in contact with him and learn as much as possible from him. I don't understand whis going-against... People likes so much being anti-this, anti-that... but often they are just anti-something and they have nothing by themselves.
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"i don't believe in perfect masters or guru-cult authoritarianism" i respect your belief, of course. "disciples don't "authorize" anything. they are presented with doctrine and dogma, and they tend to accept it blindly." no, the opposite: "never believe to my words, just go inside and see by yourself what is the Truth" THIS is the teaching of a perfect Master. And it is a quote from Kirpal Singh. IF a master goes in the opposite direction of this statement and say to believe in him blindly, yes this is a religion. Not spirituality. But spirituality it is all about personal and direct experience. And spiritual experience is NOT relative, it is the only thing that it's not relative! You can say many thing, books can tell us many things, but if i see the radiant form of the Master inside me, if the Sound Current pulls me out of the body and in different planes of existence... that is MY reality, nothing relative and not filtered by outer and exterior factors. Myth and fantasy? I can tell you what is myth and fantasy: believing in something or somebody without proof. And also NOT believing in something or somebody without proof is just a belief. Atheism is a belief, atheism is a religion. The opposite word for believing is not un-believing, is knowing. And excuse me, how i can know the Supreme Reality (call it God or Nirvana or Heaven or wathever)? Of course with my direct experience.
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Sorry but God is not owned by Beas ;-) and so Sant Mat. No one needs authorization to "be" Sant Mat. More, the disciples are the only that can authorize somebody to be called (by them!) Perfect Master, and this is just a consequence of the spiritual experiences and realizations that they have with Him. Because of this, I can't say if somebody I never meet is really a Master, I must be in contact with him, meditate with him, and see what happens with him. THEN I can say that for me, he is a Master. Being part of some "official" lineage, for me, doesn't matter. I can say that my Master is really a Perfect Satguru because it's a consequence of my life's experience and relationship (exterior and inner) with Him. Despite your opinion, many people can say something about inner planes for their personal experience.
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p.s. i'm not a Beas satsanghi, my Sant Mat Guru is Sirio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirio_Carrapa I'm not following Charan Singh or other Beas Masters so of course, i have great respect for everybody but i can't and won't criticize or comment any teaching of people who i never meet. But Sant Mat is not just "Beas". The first Master of my Master was Sant Kirpal Singh and He was a disciple of Sawan Singh (Beas lineage) and his writings and teachings are in line with my first comment.
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IF Sach Khand is beyond time, space and duality, how exactly can be a "place" to "stay"? perhaps it can be that no words can express what actually is Sach Khand and how can be staying in that place, so Saints have to use metaphors...
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Sach Khand is NOT a sort of heaven, but God as state of consciousness. It is a concept much more similar to Nirvana for Buddhists. When the souls realizes Sach Khand there is not any more soul, God and Sach Khand, there is just One. This is Sant Mat. Furthermore, yes, of course, every religion and spiritual path has a something, very deeply, in common.
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Hi, i was initiated to Sant Mat by Satguru Sirio Carrapa and i've seen some other initiations by Him. To all the people it was given an experience of Light and one of Sound during initiation. And everybody say (me too) that many other experiences happens often. In particular for me, i have Sound experiences just every time i desire and i've met the Radiant Form many times. Perhaps you know a lot of Beas organization but not so much about other Sant Mat Masters. It is not a problem (not for me, and i suppose not for you) but is not automatically "true" that some thing wasn't working for you, and in just one of the MANY places in which is present, and SO it is a trick or a lie.
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May 4, 2010