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Mike
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Mike is now following kizima
41 minutes ago
Rick, that could be one way of looking at it. But, as I've written here before, it could be that some of this thinking was "before it's time", something that happens in an evolving system. Perhaps Pelagius was ahead of his time, and perhaps we are just getting to the place where we are ready to reconsider this particular line of thought. That's what I'm thinking.
Toggle Commented Oct 25, 2013 on Sacrifice For Sin II at Waving or Drowning?
Thanks for the excerpt Rick. As I've said several times now I'm impressed with Pope Francis. Of course I like what he has to say here about evolution, but that won't surprise anyone. My thinking on this has been informed by several Catholics, going back to the great Jesuit anthropologist Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. And currently Franciscan Richard Rohr is doing great work making the notion of consciousness more approachable. We continue to move forward, and it takes all kinds. Lots of people are working from within, and lots from without. As with so much of life Rick, it's both/and, not either/or. I see no conflict in my appreciating the words of the Pope and yet choosing to operate in a more loosely defined environment.
Thanks Mike. Dad, FTW is short for For The Win, which means she liked what you said. And so did I. Except I'll have to get the Armani taken in a little... and I'll have to get rid of the cuffs on the pants. Apparently they're out of style now!
Connie, as usual another beautiful and piercing comment, thanks so much for your insight.
Rick, I'm always happy to read something from Pope Francis... I really like this guy. I won't debate the issue with you because I think our belief systems differ sufficiently to appear to constitute two "different" faiths, but I want to assure you that Christ is central to what I believe. I'll try to express that when I get to the 3rd and final instalment of this series. I don't think it will satisfy you, but I must tell you that I am overjoyed, in every sense of the word, with where I'm at on this journey. Peace and joy to you.
I recognize that table...
Toggle Commented Sep 7, 2013 on Life By Design--249/116 at Life...to the max!
1 reply
Just re-reading my response J, and it doesn't make much sense! I think we're coming up with new questions, yes, but they're better questions. Deeper questions. And it's not just science coming up with new questions, or religion coming up with new questions, etc. With each new round we move more toward that convergence I mentioned before. Not sure that's any clearer. :)
Great comment J. I agree with you on the discoveries thing, but I think we need new language... something to indictate hierarchy. The new discoveries lead us to new questions, but I guess I'm objecting to the continued use of the word "gaps". I think it's much more positive than that.
Rick - Thanks for the feedback on my post about the deification of God being a serious problem. The one I haven't written yet. I mean thanks for the feedback on the post I haven't written yet.
Conrad, thank you so much for that comment, and for sharing something so personal. To say "We're on the same page" would be an understatement. If there's an evolutionary impulse at the base of all creation and reality--and I think there is--then as I grow, my capacity to grasp even just a little more of what God is grows too. It must, or I will eventually outgrow God. (Hence the crises that so many of us encounter, and, come to think of it, institutional Christianity's resistance to questions.) And the anthropomorphic thing too. I've got a post rattling around in my head on how the anthropomorphization of God is a serious problem--just as serious as the deification of God. But, that's a conversation for another day.
Marty, thanks for the comment. I think I get about 25% of Caputo too. (Maybe if we put our heads together we can come up with 50%!) What you're saying he's saying is really working for me. As for the conversations, I hear you. I've learned (the hard way) that folks need to be ready for them. If they're happy where they are, or at least think they are, this is the last thing you want to bring up. All you can do is be there when the moment is right.
Connie, thanks so much for sharing that with us... that was beautiful. I believe what I experienced was not evolutionary, except in terms of how it might be seen half a century and more after the event, or set against what people believed about Christianity in the middle of the twentieth century. I have to say though, I think what you have described above is exactly evolutionary. Thank you.
J, thanks for your thoughts. Remember, the premise of irrelevance is based on a faith, which I think we would both acknowledge is alive and well, which assigns God to the gaps, or as a way to avoid Hell. Lots of other folks have a faith in which God is very, very relevant. I think I take exception to one thing on science though. [S]cience can only grapple with the natural world which is actually less real than the spiritual world... There was a time when I would have agreed, but now my view is there is only one world. And while you're absolutely right that a lot of scientists have trouble dealing with the spiritual aspects of that one world (just as some Christians feel the need to dismiss much of science), if science and spirituality are honestly practiced and expanded, I believe they will converge.
I love Chesterton. Thanks Rick.
Rick - We have a long blog history together, but I've got to tell you, the arc of these comments is truly astounding and concerning. (And don't reply please because we're done here.)
Toggle Commented Aug 2, 2013 on A Reluctant (R)evolution at Waving or Drowning?
Now it's the mullahs. I see Rick. Have a good day.
Toggle Commented Aug 1, 2013 on A Reluctant (R)evolution at Waving or Drowning?
Rick, we are so far apart of this thing... farther than I realized. First of all, you're tempering your story half way through. If you go up this all-too-long page you'll see that your initial issues equally included the "fact" that he was not revealing his Muslim faith. That was and is bogus of course. Now it seems your problem with him is purely theological. Here's where I land on that. Of course he says things about Jesus that I disagree with! Lots of people do. But that does not eliminate his book from my reading list. In fact, as I've said many times, I enjoy being challenged. He's going to push my thinking in different directions, and that's when I find I learn the most. If nothing else he will teach me more about the context of the man Jesus' time, and that in turn helps situate my own views. If you believe Jesus was both the Son of God and the Son of Man, well, this guy has written a book on the Son of Man part. Why wouldn't I read it? I'm here to learn, and I have no need to "publicly disagree with him." Not interested. Yes, I believe we can learn from people we may differ with. Especially from those folks, come to think of it. To refuse to engage opinions different from our own is to assume that we have cornered the market on truth, which is both arrogant and fear-based.
Toggle Commented Aug 1, 2013 on A Reluctant (R)evolution at Waving or Drowning?
One of these days I will learn my lesson. This is not that day. Author Reza Aslan is interviewed by Fox News This. Is. Awesome.
Toggle Commented Jul 28, 2013 on A Reluctant (R)evolution at Waving or Drowning?
Rick, thanks for responding to the points taken from the book. The pints that completely contradicted the criticisms you borrowed from someone else. Of the book you haven't read. Have a good day.
Toggle Commented Jul 26, 2013 on A Reluctant (R)evolution at Waving or Drowning?
Rck, the more I push, it seems the more ridiculous your argument becomes. Perhaps I should use the word vacuous instead, because I still don't know what your real issue with this book is. And now that we've completely hijacked this post, let me address a couple things you've implied. I think. The author is deceiving us by not telling us he's Muslim The book starts with the Author's Note. Within the first handful of sentences he tells us he was born into a Muslim family. He also tells us he was converted to evangelical Chrisitanity at a young age, but then discarded that faith in college (where he studied religion) and returned to his religious roots. The author isn't a scholar (I don't know what that means, but it would seem to disqualify a lot of Christian authors too!) His research is very detailed and referenced. And not just from the Bible, but from the source material too. He states that while he is no longer a folllower of Jesus the Christ, he's a bigger fan than ever of Jesus of Nazareth. I'm sufficiently intrigued that the book is going on my reading list.
Toggle Commented Jul 26, 2013 on A Reluctant (R)evolution at Waving or Drowning?
Rick I'm not asking for Mr. Dickerson's perspective, I'm asking for yours. This exchange is with you, not him. And you started it, come to think of it. So follow through.
Toggle Commented Jul 25, 2013 on A Reluctant (R)evolution at Waving or Drowning?
Actually Rick, in all seriousness I'm curious about your issue with the book. Do you feel only Chrisitans have the right to write about Jesus? Jesus is seen as a revered prophet in Islam, so doesn't that give a Muslim license to write about him, much as a Christian would write about any of the OT prophets who, after all, were not Christians but Jews? And to take another path, if Jesus is the single most important influence in someone's life shouldn't they read about him from all sorts of different perspectives? Can you tell me what your single most important objection to the book is?
Toggle Commented Jul 25, 2013 on A Reluctant (R)evolution at Waving or Drowning?
Thanks Rick. I see you're quoting the Fox News report and not the book itself, but nevertheless it looks interesting.
Toggle Commented Jul 24, 2013 on A Reluctant (R)evolution at Waving or Drowning?
Rick I must be something right because stuff like this used to make me angry but now it makes me chuckle. Have a good day.