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Roger Pham
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@Davemart, Let's hope so, mate! Meanwhile, a lot of people are anxiously waiting for the PHEV power train of the RAV4 Prime to be available on sleek and aerodynamic vehicles like the Crown. Bring it on soon, Toyota...the petrol supply is dwindling and we desperately need more and more PHEV's to conserve precious petrol.
@peskanov, I also feel a bit disappointed that Toyota doesn't offer the PHEV version of the Crown that can use the same engine and entire existing power train of the RAV4 Prime with 302 hp and 39 mpg, thus would be saving SO MUCH development capital and excellent mpg....instead of wasting so much capital on developing the Hy-Max power train with a 6-speed gear-change transmission that can offer only a measly 28 mpg and only 30 more hp...pathetic fuel efficiency in this day and age, when the competing Tesla Model S can get above 100 MPGe. What is Toyota thinking? Or perhaps the "gentlemen's agreement" with the Power that Be doesn't allow Toyota to produce many PHEV's, for fear of too much petroleum saving?
@GdB, "' But the fuel cost is going to be crazy high!' With increasing shortages in the future, fossil fuel cost will be higher and higher. Meanwhile, with increasing development and economy of scale, green H2 will be cheaper and cheaper. We clearly have 2 trajectories, 1 for FF and 1 for Green H2 ... and they will soon intersect and that will be the turning point. Plus we should not forget the high tolls that FF is exacting on the environment and on our future generations, with climate change, pollution and increasing rates of cancers, autism, respiratory illness...
@M_zsolt, Airbus and several other aircraft makers are working on LH2 for air transport. The most important benefit of LH2 is massive fuel weight reduction, only 1/3 the weight of Jet fuel per BTU of energy. Blended-wing-body aircraft design is the prime candidate because of increase in volume to surface ratio that will permit lower drag even with the larger volume of fuel due to the low-density LH2. Blended-wing-body configuration with very thick wing root section is also beneficial to embed the ducted-fan nacelle within the wing root, thus another major drag reduction of this configuration when using electric motor ducted fan propulsion. There are several incredible synergies that will result in unprecedented level of efficiency gain from the use of LH2 powering Fuel Cells and Super-Conducting motor in blended-wing-body aircraft with embedded electric ducted fan nacelles.
Perhaps Toyota is conforming to a "Gentlemen's Agreement" with higher power, restraining Toyota from producing too many Plug-in EV's. That's why we see so few PHEV's produced by Toyota in spite of huge demand and waiting lists.
Great !!! This superconduction motor has Liquid Hydrogen (LH2) spelled all over it. The LH2 will be routed around the SC magnets in order to maintain superconducting temperatures. In combination, the LH2 and the greatly-downsized motors (to 1/10th) will greatly reduce propulsion weight for the long-range vehicle, especially planes, allowing much higher payload capacity than ever possible with petroleum /ICE combination, while realizing Zero-Emission and Zero-CO2 transportation. The advantage of using e-motor for ducted fan aircraft is that the fans can be embedded inside the rear portion of the wings or fuselage, in order to greatly reduce nacelle drag, since fire and explosion hazard will be much reduced with the use of e-motors instead of gas turbines. The use of blended-wing-body aircraft for storage of LH2 will also lend the very thick central wing section to cover the fans, thus resulting in a very clean configuration in order to even further enhance aerodynamic efficiency. Thus we will be getting 3 sources of efficiency gain: from major gross-take-off weight reduction, from higher motor efficiency, and from aerodynamic drag reduction. This will greatly give economic incentive for the use of LH2 for SC motors in blended-wing body aircraft to replace the grossly inefficient existing petroleum/ICE/cigar-shaped fuselage/huge engine-fan nacelle configuration.
@Albert E Short, I agree with your sentiment. North Africa is full of desert and is right at the door step of Europe, why not set up vast solar farms in N Africa to make Hydrogen and pipe it via undersea pipelines to Europe? (and give Putin the dirty finger...FU) But, thanks to Putin for the food and fuel price escalation, many N Africa countries are going bankrupt and will need cash infusion from the West. This is the time to set up "debt trap" by loaning them money using their land as collateral...and when they can't pay back their loan in time, then takeover the land to set up solar farms.
I'm still waiting for Hydrogen -ICE HEV to come to the scene to play an important role in future green energy mobility. H2-HEV can use Green H2 and can have a practical range of 250 to 300 miles for city driving, and can also use Green Methane for extra long-distance driving of around 600 miles for long-distance driving, at more affordable prices than current BEV's. Don't forget that PHEV can use much smaller battery than a long-range BEV and can stretch the battery supply much further than a long-range BEV having half the range, though an H2-HEV would use the least battery resource.
Toggle Commented Jun 16, 2022 on Far from Finished at Green Car Congress
Good point, Gorr, in that H2-ICE can tolerate much higher impurity in the H2, thus will lower the price of H2 at the pump for H2-ICE. Any price reduction in H2 will be greatly needed to fast-tracking green-H2 in transportation.
@mahonj, No need for 2 tanks, the tank for for compressed H2 at 700 bar can hold very well NG at 350 bar that will boost range from 250 miles to 600 miles. The same H2 gas injector will do fine for NG, just reduce the NG injection volume since we will need much less NG volume. Gasoline is a totally different and will need lower compression ratio, and a few other changes, so would not be best in the same vehicle. The idea is to move away from gasoline, and not to continue to burn gasoline. @SJC, Good idea. RNG would be great where green H2 is not yet available, to lower CO2 emission. The use of green H2 for local driving, and RNG for long-distance driving would be a cheaper and more complete zero-CO2 solution than the use of resource-intensive BEV that uses grid electricity made partly from fossil fuel.
Good point, mahonj. A H2-ICE can use both green H2 as well as Natural Gas. Use green H2 for about 250-mi local driving per fill-up, and when filled up with NG, can go 3 times further, for a range of ~600 miles for long trips, because NG is a lot more energy dense per volume than H2. No need to use expensive battery nor expensive fuel cell and still capable of using green energy for daily driving
My crystal ball shows, in the immediate term, the LiFePO4 battery that is much more fire resistant and requires no precious Cobalt nor Nickel. Longer term, we will see Sodium ion battery using very plentiful sodium in the vast ocean. These chemistries have lower density than existing NMC or NCA chemistries, so would be best reserve for PHEV (Plug-in Hybrid) that only requires 10-15 kWh packs, with a range extender that can be either an ICE or a FC that permit rapid fill-up and even longer range than a long-range BEV. I would only buy a PHEV because I prefer the energy flexibility, rapid energy refill for long trips, and dual-power-plant reliability and redundancy of both battery and ICE or FC. For me, a PHEV is a must-have !
Toggle Commented May 24, 2022 on Rough road for EV industry at Green Car Congress
@Davemart, "Can anyone spot any 'gotchas' though?" So far so good with this impressive technology to generate H2 from established carrier molecules. The gotchas that I can spot are that: 1.. NH3 ammonia is very toxic and lethal if released quickly during rupture of a container, while H2 is far safer, 2.. CH4 methane and NH3 take considerable amount of energy and expense to produce, so, even if the conversion process back to H2 is 91% efficient, the round-trip efficiency won't be that good. 3.. What the cost of producing this ceramic membrane with built-in catalysts? may not be that cheap! So, this will be rather a niche application where H2 pipeline won't be available. Otherwise, H2 would best be transported via pipelines just like Natural Gas is transported right now, just replacing one gas for another. LOHC (Liquid Organic H2 Carrier) would be more practical bulk H2 carrier since it is in liquid form, non-toxic and non-flammable. It would be
Australia have a vast potential to become the World's leader in H2 export and the king in future energy, given the vast stretches of sunny desert land in the continent, to replace the current coal export now.
@sd, Countries that are fast-tracking the H2 infrastructure are those that do not have much NG reserves and have to import massive quantities of NG. So, the H2 to be produced from Renewables and Nuclear is intended to replace the NG that has to be imported. My crystal ball tells me that eventually pure H2 will replace Natural Gas (NG) in existing NG piping systems, and thus H2 transportation will be just as easy as transporting NG currently, and H2 will be available everywhere NG is available. The Ukraine war though very devastating, is a major boost for rapid acceleration of green H2 development to replace NG. Necessity is the mother of invention ! When H2 will be available everywhere, then it would be a no-brainer to have Plug-in FCV (PFCV) with 40-mi range on battery and the rest on H2. This would require only 1/5 to 1/10 the battery capacity of a long-range BEV, thus would greatly alleviate the constrain of battery-making resources, ease the massive investment required on battery factories, ease the resources requirement for making FC since the FC stack will be much smaller in a PFCV vs in a FCV, and would allow us to accelerate much faster toward Zero-Emission mobility utilizing Green Energy. A PFCV would solve the long charging time of a full BEV, and would also solve the slow acceleration of a full FCV since battery can provide a surge of power much more readily than the FC stack. People living in apartments can still own a PFCV and can charge it at work using daytime solar energy, while can travel long distances on weekends using H2 energy. Here, we can see that an-universally-available H2 network will rapidly accelerate Green and Zero-Emission Mobility.
Thanks, Davemart, for a highly informative posting above. I would like to add that eventually pure H2 will replace Natural Gas (NG) in existing NG piping systems, and thus H2 transportation will be just as easy as transporting NG currently, and H2 will be available everywhere NG is available. The Ukraine war though very devastating, is a major boost for rapid acceleration of green H2 development to replace NG. Necessity is the mother of invention ! When H2 will be available everywhere, then it would be a no-brainer to have Plug-in FCV (PFCV) with 40-mi range on battery and the rest on H2. This would require only 1/5 to 1/10 the battery capacity of a long-range BEV, thus would greatly alleviate the constrain of battery-making resources, ease the massive investment required on battery factories, ease the resources requirement for making FC since the FC stack will be much smaller in a PFCV vs in a FCV, and would allow us to accelerate much faster toward Zero-Emission mobility utilizing Green Energy. A PFCV would solve the long charging time of a full BEV, and would also solve the slow acceleration of a full FCV since battery can provide a surge of power much more readily than the FC stack. People living in apartments can still own a PFCV and can charge it at work using daytime solar energy, while can travel long distances on weekends using H2 energy. Here, we can see that an-universally-available H2 network will rapidly accelerate Green and Zero-Emission Mobility.
@Mahonj, Liquid H2 (LH2) is the way to go for aviation. The fuel is incredibly light and will permit doubling of payload weight, which is ideal for long-distance flights in which the payload weight will be much reduced in comparison to jet fuel weight. The H2 can be transported to the airport via pipeline, then liquefied and stored at the airport. This would greatly simplify the logistic of LH2 supply. Due to doubling of payload weight per BTU of LH2 consumed, the LH2 will quickly be cost-competitive with existing petroleum fuel.
@Dursun, The cheapest way to transmit energy is the use of pipeline, like H2 or Natural Gas pipeline. H2 pipelines can cost as little as 1/10 that of electricity powerline to transmit an average flow of energy over several days.
Existing NG pipeline can use 100% H2, as long as the pressure is not fluctuating frequently, and as long as there is no micro-fissures or cracks on the inner surface of the pipe whereby H2 can seep in. Perhaps a special coating of very low H2 permeability can be used to coat where micro-cracks are found, or those sections can be replaced, in order to permit the use of H2 in existing NG pipeline system.
@Nick Lyons, LH2 is very light. For a given payload weight, the fuel mass of LH2 is about 1/5 that of JetA fuel. Such a light-weight fuel cannot cause a tail-heavy situation even fully loaded. The Plane should be loaded primarily in the front to avoid nose light. When the LH2 fuel mass is mostly consumed, the airplane will be nose-heavy, but should still be controllable with good stability margin with sufficiently-large horizontal tail plane.
Good point, E-P, about the very low energy density of anhydrous ammonia that would make long-range flight impossible with any meaningful payload. Plus it would take a lot of energy to synthesize ammonia from H2 and N2, around 50% of energy efficiency hit. It would be better off to focus on synthetic JetA fuel in the near term, and perfecting the technology for Liquid H2 for the long term. LH2 has obvious weight advantage in term of payload weight, and safety in term of post-crash fire. Weight-wise, LH2 weighs 1/3 that of jetA, and the weight of polyurethane foam insulation is small, and can contribute to the structure of the plane. Safety-wise, the LH2 fuel will be placed in the rear compartment where it will be most protected from a survivable crash. The thickly insulated fuel vessel plus the very light fuel plus the rearward-most placement means that the fuel tank will likely remain intact after a survivable crash to prevent post-crash fire that often claimed lives even after a survivable crash. Efficiency-wise, LH2 fuel will be more efficient when used in optimized gas-turbines, and even though it takes roughly 1/3 of the energy of the H2 to liquefy it, it really only takes 20% more energy to make LH2. It takes roughly 50 kWh to make 1 kg of H2, and turning that into LH2 will take around 10 kWh more, thus ~60 kWh per kg of LH2. So, H2 can be piped into the airport area from the H2 pipeline system, and can use grid-excess Energy from both Renewable and Nuclear sources to make LH2, and stored right at the airport tanks. This would result in the most efficient energetic and logistic distribution system for LH2 for aviation.
Gimme just 3 cylinders and a single turbocharger to deliver 200 hp in the SO version for my PHEV would make me happy. Then, gimme 12-15 kWh battery pack capable of around 160 hp to drive around town on pure electricity. I would get a combined 360 hp to race with the likes of Tesla Model 3 and Model S...Electricity and gasoline can cọ-exist to bring the best of both worlds together in a world-class vehicle...no range anxiety and no need to find a Supercharger station.
I agree, gorr. This is the final step that will make H2 fuel practical for the mass transportation market, along with high-efficiency H2-combustion engines. In this way, H2 fuel will be stored in safe, non-pressurized tanks, and in non-flammable LOHC medium, far safer than gasoline right now. The H2 from the H2-production plant will be transported to the gas station via existing natural gas piping system, and the H2 will be incorporated into the LOHC at the gas station to be delivered to each car. To fuel up a H2 vehicle, we will need one hose to pump the H2-LOHC into the the tank while a second hose will remove the H2-depleted-LOHC out of the tank. Filling up will be fast and convenient, just like filling up a gasoline car, for the same driving range.
@sd and GdB, This is a stoichiometric-combustion gas turbine / stean turbine hybrid engine that consumes all the O2 in the intake air while diluting that mixture with steam generated using wasted exhaust heat in order for the steam to generate extra thrust, thus a built-in exhaust heat recuperator. That is how this can obtain a 35%-gain in fuel efficiency vs a conventional gas turbine. Thus, we will have a very small compressor section that consume much less input power, that is followed by a steam injector right behind it for charge dilution and an H2 injector within the same chamber, to produce a mixture of air, steam and H2 in order to greatly reduce NOx during combustion, feeding this combustion product into a much larger turbine section. Then, some of the exhaust gas will be fed to a condensor section to recover water to be injected into an exhaust heat recuperator coil section to produce steam again. This hybrid gas/steam turbine engine will thus be heavier and a bit more complicated than a comparable gas turbine, ...BUT...the much lighter LH2 fuel load will more than compensate for the increase engine weight that will be much more efficient than conventional gas turbines thus will help reduce LH2 fuel mass and increase the economic prospect of LH2 as aviation fuel. This is a really exciting development for H2-burning gas turbines that will make LH2 aviation fuel to become cost-competitive with Jet A fuel much sooner, due to the gain in efficiency inherent in it, while achieving truly low emission...truly exciting development.
Agree with E-P's assessment about using nuclear energy for transportation. It seems that molten-salt Thorum reactors are most promising, safe, and very abundant source of energy to complement Renewable Energy. Countries that are low in RE potential like Japan, Korea, and Western Europe should invest heavily in new nuclear energy techs in order to become energy independent. We can make PHEV's instead of BEV's, that requires only 1/5-1/8 the battery capacity of a long-range BEV, and use grid electricity to drive in Springs and Falls when power consumption is low, while use H2 to drive in Summers and Winters when power consumption is high. @Thomas, If you already have H2, then why not use it directly on board vehicles instead of using power plants to make electricity and use it to charge batteries. This is because Summers and Winters have the Electricity Grid heavily utilized, and if adding more power consumption to charge BEV's will need expensive Grid upgrade, PLUS massive investments in battery-making plants to the tune of $5 Billion USD per GigaFactory to make 500,000 BEV's per year. Why not make PHEV's instead, that requires only 1/5-1/8 the battery capacity of a long-range BEV, and use grid electricity to drive in Springs and Falls when power consumption is low, while use H2 to drive in Summers and Winters when power consumption is high? @Gryf, Yes, port injection with water at high engine load can be used to reduce combustion temperature to lower NOx emission and to ensure engine durability, and to avoid fuel enrichment to improve fuel efficiency at high load. The water can be obtained from condensing exhaust gas, which contains high water vapor concentration, being the sole end product of combustion. One can look at water injection as another method of EGR, and in liquid form, permits full-volume Oxygen intake to permit maximum power WITHOUT fuel enrichment, as well as raising maximum power output due to evaporative cooling of intake air, as well as washing the intake valve from the carbon built-up from the gaseous EGR process and PCV process. @ECI, Why not use this engine in land-based Motorsport application? Motorsport carries only the driver and zero luggage space, thus plenty of space for fuel. Why not use Liquid H2, that is much lighter than petroleum fuel or methanol, thus permitting even better performance? The larger fuel tank size to carry H2 is of no problem in Motorsport. Remember that BEV's have WORSE problem than H2-vehicles with energy storage density, BOTH volumetric and gravimetric wise. Remember that the H2-ICE can have water injection for high-load cooling instead of using very rich fuel mixture in racing engines, thus making it more efficiency at racing power regimes when compared to gasoline or methanol racing engines. Remember that Toyota gasoline engines are now capable of 41% thermal efficiency, with Toyota H2-ICE to be capable of nearly 50% thermal efficiency, which should stretch the fuel supply pretty far in comparison to previous gasoline racing engines.