This is StephenTurnock's Typepad Profile.
Join Typepad and start following StephenTurnock's activity
Join Now!
Already a member? Sign In
StephenTurnock
Cheshire
building and implementing seamless 360 degree solutions encompassing all aspect of Recruitment Systems on and offsite - allowing Recruiters to Recruit and Management to Manage.
Interests: Recruiting,SocialRecruiting,Technology,Operations,Innovation
Recent Activity
Great post Andy and not in the least vacuous and in fact thoughtful Intel. Weighty numbers are reflective and relative even down to a niche [skill set] and with impending skills shortages and in a world where everyone is a potential candidate [and not least the traditional post and pray methods failing], then it is good to widen the net. It would after all, be hard not to find even a pink and purple squirrel [with yellow spots] on Facebook! Actually there are rocket scientists on Facebook too. But let’s say you want a common o garden Java Developer (UK) then you might find an initial top level search result of 86000 on Facebook, Google+ maybe 38,600, LinkedIn 51,000. I think overall the good message [from Andy] is to think about where your audience is and how to listen and engage - think wider, without blinkers and with an open mindset. At the same time, recruiters have to give the potentials easy options to communicate right back [two way] and a choice in how to respond from where [which platforms] they are living [in and via mobile].
1 reply
Time for that fax machine to go in the bin!. I like Andy's reference to that 'job board-itus' for candidates - as they shift from the pit of no response... and especially transactional recruiters get less response, maybe even 30 % less over the last 2 years and yet the answer? advertise more… Doh! Fishing in the same reducing pool of actives. What opportunity ahead then for change as the new dawn is here already. Certainly direct employers are already there are they not? That says something. Again, an opportunity for recruiters to build some real value ahead.
1 reply
Andy you always find great images ! Sounds familiar: Get a requirement, advertise/post, find, wait for CV, send CV. Hope! It’s very much broadcast isn't it and many of those transactional recruiters just ‘doing’ social in a smoke and mirrors kind of way are the ones still broadcasting in that transactional only ‘ no one is home / mute mode’ and they don’t know where the social and engagement part fits in with that model they grew up with. Many recruiters don’t’ get the engagement part nor sharing content for that matter. They just want to find someone available now and send a CV [no pipeline]. And some recruiters will say, wait up!, recruitment is indeed social and has always been social. And I say yes it has and is, always… so what are you waiting for? Kodak, Blockbuster, Comet, Jessops, HMV.. what did they wait for?
1 reply
Kodak is an analogy I use a lot. The 130 year old company lost 90% of its value in 2011 alone. Remarkably, Kodak invented the first digital camera in 1975 but put it on hold as the execs were AFRAID it would hinder their mainstream paper & film sales. That sounds familiar! Recruiters as with any business, can find ways to build new innovative offerings alongside existing revenue streams. As per @Jabob comment, Mindset is inhibitor or mobiliser! Fear is a chocolate teapot!
1 reply
Great Post Andy.. far too many recruiters are let loose on LI with no training – especially in the ‘engagement’ department and not being part of the conversation in specific niche [some exceptions however]. Yet how many recruitment companies let recruiters loose on their internal CRM systems without any training in how to get the best out of it nor have any rules and guides in place as to what is expected? Regarding immediacy, the dusty old database record may not be so immediate sometimes unless it is well maintained. Of course the CRM has benefits of historical relevance, tracking notes [previous history – interviews, placements, send outs etc]. But in any case Linkedin is not the replacement for that but is the ‘dynamic’ enabler in engagement, attraction and not least - feeding updates to the ‘static’. However, I think the more transactional recruiters who have been mostly working in recruitment during the post and pray era do tend to see LI as just a database to search only, but as we know, it’s no longer about just finding people but engagement of the niches in advance of them even looking for a job.
1 reply
Some of the best posts like this one, are ones that remain 100% valid over a year later! And all this makes you do things better, place more people sooner eg Sourcing & engagement ahead of the curve – BECAUSE competitors & employers are already there.. Keeping candidates warm, just another touch point & tapping into candidates as well as access to their connections & referrals as well. Informal communication lines open, keeping track of candidates. Reaching out to more candidates already using particular mediums, before they are looking. Company& recruiter brand building, leading voice. Attract better connected internal staff, retain better staff. Lead generation, Client Business Development, intelligence . Niche community building and engagement, nurturing talent pipelining. Inbound attraction of better quality and relevance even through irrelevance! Reduced costs to hire, reduces time to hire, better metrics & feedback driving strategy. Place & retain more people, sooner... Engagement is the challenge!
1 reply
Hi All, Andy, Irena & Glenn.. Recruiters just love the search part don’t they!.. and this is also the drudgery part - e.g. wading through those lists. I’m sure it’s a labour of love sometimes for many even while it is the obstacle and hindrance to that next placement in a timely manner - which is of course the desired outcome. Yet still, for some time now, many recruiters still build lists every single day which are not always the best starting point since they already exclude people through improper use of keywords – e.g. not putting in the effort at the start. It’s a haunted freaky horror show of ghouls and ghosts save for a little thought at the outset. It got me thinking about the roots of these haunting evils which go back to the early Ghostbuster years of circa 1984 , where speedy success was then about organising your candidates in a fashion that those cupboards full of paper CV’s would hold the envy of any librarian - each specially coded with location grids, a labyrinth of job tiles and associated disciplines, industry type, qualifications, skills and weightings of experience and where applicable, the candidates actual availability. This was a pretty efficient system especially in conjunction with the ‘hot files’ for those candidates available right now and those known to be not available but ‘looking’ for a move [active] gleamed from our regular talking to the database [passives] on a regular basis or while step-stoning our way via referrals ! Then, with the treasured job spec from your client hiring manager in hand, you could soon have your hands on a bunch of very relevant CV’s to start ‘talking’ to. Now enter the early search systems in the late 80’s that were replacing those cupboards of meticulously filed CV’s. These were your standard DB2 ilk and largely keyword/codes based hence search results were only as good as the knowledge of the initial coders - which if not done by actual recruiters, were sometimes expertly coded by trained keyword coders and often included every conceivable synonym - making it easier for the recruiter doing the searching not to miss anyone down the line. Next arriving was the indexing capability of more powerful databases and the ease of free text “phrase search” together with fuzzy* logic . Arriving at the same time was the en masse CV era as well as the breed of the more transactional / sales recruiter. The new database cleverness then had tended to help encourage recruiters to forget the need in the understanding of how data is stored and therefore be less inclined in getting to grips with even the basics of Boolean and the thought process associated with keywords. At this time, Increasing demands for volumes by those recruitment models and supply frameworks based on managed solutions and outsourcing processes in some cases disenfranchised recruiters further in a lesser understanding of the actual role and interpretation of the client requirement. And today, as we manage increasingly bigger data everywhere and contemplate sourcing local and external sources that includes the noisy user generated content out in the clouds [ the social media ectoplasm] we are managing vastly bigger ‘long’ and ‘short lists hence recruiters putting efforts back into understanding how to produce better quality long lists at the outset e.g. tighter more manageable set of accurate results as Andy says, just has to be a winner in getting to the better shortlist with better signal! The next challenge, not least in how to engage innovatively and with a now increasingly mobile and dynamic network [as opposed to just a static ‘list of people’], but also in the useful retention of that knowledge, analysis of it together with updating, refining and sharing this ‘value’ with your co-recruiters within your organisation to become your efficient pipeline[s] of talent.
1 reply
I can see some analogy in older style corporate recruiter company structure, where the icebergs are old style control and structure is top down – e.g. broadcast from the few to the many, whereas the social iceberg only works bottom up - from the many to the few.. All those very essential strategic elements at the base of the iceberg is from where HR & in-house recruiters currently lead the way. Strategy is indeed needed to underpin the move to social recruitment, I would only add that at the base, this includes the decision makers themselves get fully behind it [from bottom up] and allow experimentation and innovation and creativity too. Else otherwise we might add a few Titanic’s in the picture too as there will be some lost decision maker souls on board. Wind back a few years, It was so easy to convince of the need for a fax machine or to start posting adds on jobboards!
Toggle Commented Aug 20, 2012 on The Social Recruiting Iceberg at Sirona Says
1 reply
Looks like 'perception' at the responder end as well as intention of 'interpretation' at the marketeer end, makes for non-reliable figures – especially a small sample! I suspect jobvite could get some more realistic stats from their ATS data from clients regarding candidate source to hire all the way to placement – assuming it goes 360 to placement as usually there are disconnects along the way. Some recruiters likely don’t know or have the facts on real source especially the ones operating high numbers which are coming from all directions and many in duplicate and also for the reliable referral ratio, reliability in tracking all the way to the actual placement – but as Bill says, is a probable perceived ‘job share’ in reality [which is a feature of the jobvite platform as well] and different from a real referral that drives a quality placement. Jobvite itself would look attractive to some recruiters but it is a ‘broadcaster’ of adverts to anyone, rather than an ‘engagement’ with relevant community ~ unless a recruiter has really got to grips with their talent and channels to which it broadcasts and operates the means to engage right back. I hope the 71% moderate to exceptional socialrecruiters do more than one hire per year :-) And what magic can increase both the quality and quantity of candidate response at the same time? That’s like the cigarette – where addicted users really believe it can relax them at the same time as it can make them more alert! Social-Stats on Super-Drug then!
1 reply
Agree with Steve on the points re jobboards. The source is unimportant and that it's the great selection and excellent preparation that is the key. The Monday morning for many recruiters is the drudgery of sorting thousands of response from the jobboards – most of which are duplicates, perhaps not suitable or ones you got already last week and the week before. It’s a constant stream of updates however and for many recruiters is still the primary source and revenue stream. On balance and at the client end, given the people are their biggest asset, they should take care themselves in recruiting the right recruiting partners of value. If they do, they will get some great rewards not least the right people turning up that are fully briefed, qualified and if offered, will most likely accept the job because it is the right move for them. However the cases highlighted are sadly a typical story today and one in the making over the last 20 years - one in which this en masse CV era has created some wholly transactional recruiter types and one which many of those recruiters have not known any different - having grown up in that land of post and pray, hope and glory. At the same time and over that period, both the client and candidate experience along the recruitment journey has dwindled save for a few exceptions. Quantity over Quality .. and 'Value', has also been confused with 'cheapest'. That era is soon over as transactional recruiters that are not prepared to put in the effort, the systems and conversations and care back into recruitment, they will not come into the future. Certainly we are seeing some players big and small setting up direct sourcing to jobs and brand and in social – many are ahead of recruiters. Certainly the opportunity is great for recruiters stepping up in innovation as we are at a point in time where many things meet (as Andy sets out in his 'perfect storm' post – eg significant generation shifts, disruptive technology, fast changing skills demands, social, digital, mobile etc). These are huge opportunities to embrace and are an exciting time in creating real differentials going forward. Recruiters can ignore the Higgs Boson but not the shifting expectations of your savvy clients and candidates. It’s not rocket science - not even to me!
1 reply
You spoke too soon Andy - LinkedIn cut off API access to Pealk!
1 reply
Before jobboards was the age of engagement and more relevance but the JobBoard en mass CV era was quantity and needles in haystacks and a poorer candidate experience. Indeed as per many recruiters today, more about finding people as most recruiter DNA’s are entrenched in those once fruitful methods. Entering socialrecruiting without the blinkers and as a two way engager with relevance and of service to a relevant audience is as a parachute open – hence a future!. Longer term it’s the attraction of relevant people even before they are looking hence building a ready community in advance. Time and cost to hire is reduced and this is a future winner and requirement going forward. Bottom line – place more people. Recruiters with the social blinkers on thinking what worked in the past will work in the future, not taking the time to experiment, learn and understand will carry on wasting time until they one day ask – hey, where did the candidates and clients go? Doh!
1 reply
Some great tools Andy and surprising how many recruiters are unaware of them. WhoWorksAt is great for Business Development and finding great contacts to engage with on a social level in advance. Recruiters tend to live in many systems through the working day and still none more so in corporate land than Outlook at their desktop.. hence another great tool is the Outlook Social Connector. An adititional social connector plugin is required from microsoft if using office versions below V10. You can see activity feeds /status updates within each email or folder, send LI invites from within the email and see all your connections in outlook contacts. Also works with enterprise social networks, facebook, Viadeo & XING.
1 reply
I wonder why LinkedIn still feeds tweets without the #in tag ? Well, LinkedIn say “We're not changing how Twitter data appears in network updates or elsewhere on the site. LinkedIn is committed to bringing you the news and information you need to become a better professional, and we believe that including the Tweets from your connections allows us to do that”.. Well that’s just noise in your profile! Biggest turn off generally on LinkedIn is noise from some [..some] non-social recruiters - splurging jobs out in feeds and discussions. Using the platform as a JobBoard/web1.0 interrupt style, one way and without any engagement in advance.. For many recruiters the number of connections and invites too is an Olympic sport perhaps! Obviously the potentials will disconnect – connecting only to recruiters who are part of the conversation and of value. Let’s keep social channels spam free and with relevant signal . Noise belongs to the unread email and spam inbox of the past! Would be great to unfollow Mr Anonymous!
1 reply
Thanks Andy. love the quote Cicero 80BC: “if you wish to persuade me, you must think my thoughts, feel my feelings and speak my words”. That might have to be applied going up to the top and getting into the c-suit mind-sets as well for influence and remove some barriers / nervousness, protectionism or whatever is the preventative condition to see the light!. Regarding Recruiter software most will have it but mostly do not live in it. E.g. they live in outlook and a web browser and various disparate systems because many recruitment products do not join the dots and provide a place to collaborate properly hence a lot of information is lost once used. Alternatively or additionally, many HR will have existing processes outside of specific recruiter software developed over years where they will live in a deep process. Vendors will have to try harder to join up systems that are social as they tend currently to be clunky and still in broadcast mode – trying to appear social when they are not.
1 reply
Could not agree more Andy! That perfect storm is not just on its way.. it’s here and now and and indeed an opportunity for some. BUT... those recruiters with ‘eyes wide shut’ however, there is no future in Just thinking that somehow you have been proactive posting a job and waiting... now that is standing still indeed! It’s no longer business as usual. To be fair also, it’s the business leaders that must get to grips and understand and review and update their 10 year old mission statement and it's 'relevance’ in what candidates and clients expect. Recruiter ‘brands’ will no longer be created or maintained as before, but instead co-created. “People,” will take centre stage and the candidate experience that for many has not been on the button in JobBoard land, must now come top. Hence it’s an end to business as usual > leaders must allow innovation and experiment alongside existing revenue streams. Standing still = zero growth and no future!
1 reply
Excellent mini-presentations. Many recruiters are happily working the transactional models that have worked since the last storm [circa 1995] but that is coming to an end. The new trending storm happening now are for many recruiters just as ‘shifting whispering sands’ that may continue to be ignored or go un noticed until it’s too much too little too late.! The upward trends are where the audience is shifting to – both candidates and clients alike are amid the perfect storm of web2.0; cloud technologies; social profiles [dynamic CV]; search [seo]; Mobile; the skills shortage and not least, higher candidate expectations for engagement of value with savvy recruiters and direct employer brands. At the same time the downward trending now evident is where candidates have little or zero engagement on the recruitment journey such as static jobboards. Another collision concerning skills shortage, certainly in IT recruitment, is the shift in skills required by all major companies and markets which are moving quickly from legacy systems to cloud architecture where IT now also merges more drastically with mobile technologies to become a new breed of IT skill-sets and resourcing requirements. So many legacy skills recruited even just 3 years ago will less likely be required in another 2 years as the recession also fuels a speed up of the slicker infrastructure that cloud offers and demands for niche skills will cause talent wars. So what is interesting here is the demand for those skills and many other new disciplines & skills niches will not be found using old methods. Those savvy people will not be using jobboards and will need to be engaged with – and direct employers will be attracting the same to brand as well. It is a perfect storm & opportunity. But for those not evolving to the currency the audience is shifting to ~ will not weather well.
1 reply
A 'perfect storm' < great, I like that better!
1 reply
Thanks for your great blogs, inspiration and enthusiasm! I agree that finally socialrecruiting will be taken more seriously in 2012 and many strategies and integrations are being formulated and put to work. The challenge ahead for recruiters must be in taking control of their brand and sourcing strategies, Improving internal processes and learning to engage recruiter brand with people pipelines and even learn to listen again two way and be part of the conversation ahead of a job post - before the potential candidates are even looking. The Savvy recruiters are on the rise in 2012 and even seeing a few mastering sharing and building community as opposed to just broadcasting jobs to the wind thus learning only in how to be ‘un followed’! Increasingly then, recruiters will expect their employers to develop digital engagement strategies and implement friendly policies and tools for success – as well as provide relevant training in socialrecruiting as part of recruiter development and retention strategies. Direct employers are already ahead of the curve, but for me the amazing opportunity is for innovation in the wider recruitment sector. Not least because clients and candidates will be looking for recruiters with innovation and value differentiators, but also because we are now in the period where some once in a lifetime events collide together at the same time including: An impending skills shortage, skills shift, audience shift, a generation shift, mobile audience, the merging of Cloud & Mobile with IT and the end of legacy systems, sourcing strategies that are geared for relevance over quantity through direct inbound attraction. Yes bring on 2012..
1 reply
Love the use of graphics in Andy’s presentations. Once more, the emphasis of ‘engagement’ is great as it is after all the key point to understand once you have identified where your audience lives. So many recruiters are starting off on the wrong foot thinking it’s about finding people only and still broadcasting interrupts in the ‘me me me’ zone of how to kill my recruiter brand in 20 seconds!
1 reply
Thanks Andy some interesting insights and as you say, a sizable sample unlike so many others. For me the shift is clear but the naysayers in denial are still very much operating in the traditional sense - at least for many recruitment business & or Agency sides, where existing revenue streams are rooted in traditional post/pray sourcing. Naysayers through fear and protectionism alone is not a justifiable argument in any business strategy as that would be just refusing to wake up and smell the social coffee and see the facts as to where their audience shifts. For any business, it must take note of trends, threats and opportunity ~ so to ignore anything that measures high as far as those indicators are evident, and for them not to be part of talent acquisition strategy, will those players even come into the future? Are most recruiters afraid of socialrecruiting? That’s Strange for people businesses! ..but many transactional recruiters don’t play the ‘engagement’ game, even in Recruitment V1.0 landscapes nor venture beyond the ‘active’ jobseekers. Many of those recruiters have not seen anything beyond the JobBoard models of circa 1996 to present. Alas, those recruiters will not fare well, if at all, in socialrecruiting as they do not get the engagement part! For many recruiters dabbling in social it is still as a fish out of water - push and pull [post and search] as opposed to engagement. Those trying hard to understand 'engagement' will win into the future as they will be developing their recruiter / employer brands as the leading voices. Equally candidates developing their own brands online will inbound attract the best jobs and recruiters with high signal and those with a means to engage right back e.g. candidates attracting an opportunity without doing a job search at all before they are even looking! Once recruiters are trusted engagers of value, then I think twitter followings will grow too and most will take place in the land of the always on Smartphone and upwardly mobile! For further proof, a recruiter that has any applicant tracking of any worth in place, then a steady drop in relevant candidate applications from job board/listing sites, even in times when there are more active candidates about, is evidence itself that candidates are shifting to social networks and search technologies as a first port of call for the job hunt. The good news is socialrecruiting conversations in the recruitment citadel are switching slowly from “ nay it won’t work.. ” to “can it work?” and then onto “err.. how can we make it work?” but the audience themselves are driving change. Of sourcing strategies that are getting it, employers are ahead of 3rd party recruiters in many cases - so far. So for the proof then, socialrecruiting is caught red handed to be right here and now - but as a thief of the very opportunity itself for those ignoring it.
1 reply
Last time I looked Recruiter Professional Services (RPS) was expensive at £4000 for one [single] seat ~ if indeed this is what the pipeline offering is bolted on to as ‘free? Unless we are talking internal HR, not many [external] recruiters have RPS. For internal recruiters / HR, used together with referral engine then I can see some excitement. Of course - the Linkedin community has some very interesting possibilities and I’m sure LI have thought hard about where they lie and with what revenue stream - verses a happy loyal community or users with different interests. Many recruiters have some great integrated systems already which already does what LI say their talent pipeline will do. Not all recruiters operate so badly as the video suggests, having information all over the place, and disconnected etc. Recruiters if using the talent pipeline product will not entirely work that Pipeline alone and have many other processes and systems being operated integral to the recruitment process and lifecycle. For most of us external recruiters, linkedin is another source that helps feed our [these days] ‘less static’ database which has now become the more ‘social crm’ and it is here, centric, from where recruiters work which is dynamically fed by channels such as linkedin. My concern is for systems to remain social with its social users and not just encourage push [advertising] and pull [search] for the transactional broadcasting recruiter ilk, especially automation in those areas which would mean pretty disengaged passive users on linkedin being hounded and pipelined rather than relationship building of value.. And without those users, what is linkedin? Also, I would not be so happy to build a business and processes on systems in a cloud by vendors that change direction – or where the direction isn’t clear, as well as have no immediate support levels nor a vendor who does not engage fully with customers on developments and functionality or features etc. So is it a bird? or is it a plane? It’s definitely not superman or a silver bullet. Leaning a little towards a recruitment system in a cloud perhaps. Well it’s a video snippet at least for now, but not a movie epic... yet!
1 reply
As you are central to the recruitment world Andy, then you can be central to matching the wants and needs of your hub and niche audience.. It has to be a good idea. ‘Sirona-Linkup’ .. but you could be busy administering it! But that’s value and sharing. If you feature your clients job profiles and also include the linkedin ‘apply now’ button against each job then cands apply with their LI Profile [to you directly but as you said - it’s not a JobBoard!]. A reverse button would be good, where a client company uses an ‘apply to the candidate button’ submitting their profile and job details. When the candidate logs in, they see who they might already be connected with. You are a recruiter at heart!
1 reply
A photo on a CV can be seen as clutter and an unnecessary distraction from a first filtering process based on skills/experience impact. But if you’re a particular rocket scientist with some rare skills that no one has this side of the Outer Hebrides, then unless there is any particular internal espionage going on, it doesn’t matter if you're sporting a superman or an elephant man costume. But for many applicants of the more generic skill types less akin to hen’s teeth in abundance, then you might do well to make an impact on the relevance of your skills and experience without the clutter of a photo. Many employers may later check out your LI profile later - perhaps at pre interview stage - and that most likely will have a photo and other dimensions to your experience (as well as demonstrate ones social connectivity & engagement - which is becoming a skill set consideration itself [not just for business development /sales roles)). Interestingly, the ‘apply with your LI profile’ button includes your LI mug shot if you have one. Generally a photo is more accepted today that when this post was originally written perhaps, especially if they are as a professional thumbnail format and not a 10Mb pic of your family and dog. But I would say it’s still a no-no to a photo on a CV. But the new CV round the corner maybe ones online presence itself and that will do the pre selection talking for skills as well as the recommendation / referrals will play a part. We will of course see more video profiles/CV. We ourselves have been using video since 1999, but for interviewing ~ especially connecting overseas clients with candidates to save time and expense and often giving the client a wider initial choice and getting to a final candidate face to face interview sooner. CV still rules but no pictures please!
Toggle Commented Sep 12, 2011 on Should you put your photo on your CV? at Sirona Says
1 reply
Hi all and Ditto.. I’m not too excited at the 'Apply with LinkedIn' button and it’s not going to change much – at least not yet. The Apply button is simple and easy to use and a convenience for an active jobseeker with an up to date profile. Perhaps it will help to get ‘actively looking’ people to update their profile as so many are abandoned and out date if at all complete. I find the PDF generated from a profile to be poorly composed and the applicant isn’t going to get that much impact if their profile is rambling a little. As part of the profile submission process there is no option to add a cover note/letter [that I can see] - yet you can send a note to someone to refer you in your network. Lots of people will prefer to send/receive a CV - perhaps together with a link to a linkedIn profile in the cover mail. When you look at a CV, you want the relevance to jump out of the page and for many parsing systems, you might still prefer a word format and more contact info at this early application stage. Perhaps I expect too much for just a button! But if it was more, it would allow me to edit before sending, perhaps select a previously prepared submission template, highlight relevant experience for the job in question, perhaps answer a couple of filter questions from the employer/advertiser and add a cover note or/and video too. But applications will need to engage more and not be such a black hole and allow tracking as to where and who has the ball and what is the outcome/feedback.
1 reply