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"As far as Romans 9 goes, to say that it exclusively referring to nations and not individuals still doesn't solve anything." If you care about exegetical context, yes it does. But if you're seeking only to support an unbalanced - and unbiblical - soteriology, then sure, we can forget about context. Remember, when Paul talks about Jacob v. Esau, he is directly quoting from Malachi 1, which specifically refers to the nation of Israel. In fact, the book - and the chapter - begin with the words "The word of the LORD to Israel". Of course it's about nations. Paul goes on to tell us in Romans that not all of Israel is actually Israel. The nation and the people are ALWAYS distinct both linguistically and theologically. Let the Bible speak for itself.
Greg - this was a very disappointing "non-defense" defense of the old earth viewpoint. And truth be told, the convoluted apologetic you gave betrays a lack of clear thinking on your part, IMO. Saying death could have existed before the Fall of Adam theologically presupposes sin "could have" existed before the Fall. Romans 5 & in fact the whole book explicitly and consistently links sin with death. Yes, it's human death, but it also speaks of introducing death to the world, not just limited to mankind. Gen. 1:30 also clearly says God gave to every beast and bird (animals) "every green plant for food.” Any inference of meat for food is just that: an eisegetical inference. So when an old earth-er says animals "could have" died before the Fall, the implicit claim is either a) death existed apart from sin before the Fall, or b) sin (and thus death) existed before the Fall. Either one of these views is in direct contradiction to orthodox Biblical theology. There is no need to reference carbon dating or any other such argument. We can, of course, as the body of Christ, have certain - though not all kinds of - theological disagreements and still remain in fellowship. Greg, my biggest concern with your non-defense defense of an old earth is that if you're off on this controversial but fundamental point, what other positions have you yet to share that may reveal perhaps even more departure from orthodoxy? IG
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Sep 24, 2013