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Zachriel
Zachriel, angel that rules over memory, presides over the planet Jupiter.
Interests: Member AMF, Angelic Motive Force [i]Pushing planets on celestial spheres — one epoch at a time.[/i] http://zachriel.blogspot.com/
Recent Activity
Geoman: I assumed this meant that GK had cut some of the post off, presumably for bad language. Is this correct? The moderator had kindly corrected a misattribution. GK: I have clearly stated what the parameters of victory in Iraq are (and that they have been achieved). The Futurist: Iraqi deaths are low. That condition has not been met. If hundreds were being killed every month by coordinated attacks in the United States, a nation with ten times the population of Iraq, it would be considered more than sufficient to declare a de facto state of war, justify the mobilization of the military, including the invasion of any countries believed to be supporting those violent elements.
Geoman: This from the only one of us that has had a post excised from this site, presumably for bad language. You presume a lot. To my knowledge, there has been no moderation of my comments. Yes, you say that Iraq is unambiguously not at peace now. But you refuse to say where you might draw the line in the future. I'm sorry that the world more complicated than will fit into your philosophy. There is no strict dividing line between war and peace, between political stability and chaos. Even countries at relative peace may have regions at war or the threat of war. The issue is whether the U.S. has "won" in Iraq. Iraq is not politically stable and the enemy is capable of coordinating attacks across the capital, so unless you claim that a U.S. victory entails ongoing violence and instability in Iraq, then the U.S. has not yet won in Iraq, much less achieved its long term strategic goals. CNN: At least 112 people were killed in central Baghdad and more than 400 were wounded early Tuesday when suicide bombers exploded their cars in a series of five terrorist attacks, Iraqi authorities said.
Geoman: You have been asked, five or six times now, what conditions would have to be for YOU to agree on victory. Peace means at the least a reasonable cessation of hostilities (a : freedom from civil disturbance b : a state of security or order within a community provided for by law or custom). There is not always a clear dividing line between war and peace, especially in a guerrilla war, but that doesn't mean the term can't be applied unambiguously in many cases. With regards to Iraq, the war continues by any reasonable measure. (I've already said all this.) Unless you claim that a U.S. victory entails ongoing violence and instability in Iraq, then the U.S. has not yet won in Iraq, much less achieved its long term strategic goals. Geoman: Hmmmm. You not only don't understand the proper meaning and use of the term "straw man", "IED", "WMD", but now "ad hominem". That means, by the way, that your argument is flawed because I think you are a flawed person. An ad hominem is a fallacy when it's a diversion. These are examples of gratuitous attacks. I keep waiting for Zachriel to call someone, anyone, a Nazi. So, every one of your posts reads like performance art, in that each one proves the basic premise of which you seem blissfully unaware. cheap moral preening. Which by the way, is the last refuge of the intellectually bankrupt. Unfortunately you just don't seem intellectually or emotionally capable of making such an argument. Pity. Your constant personal invectives are irrelevant to the topic, and dilute whatever argument you think you are presenting. Geoman: "The commander of a government anti-riot force, three guards, and seven civilians were killed with 15 others wounded by a suicide bomber. That was just yesterday." Yes violence continues in Iraq. Do you presume that I (or anyone) disagrees? When I say violence has decreased, I obviously don't mean to zero. But you know that, don't you? That was in response to your statement "So when I say 'attacks are down, except for IEDs'," I responded that there was a suicide attack that day killing a police commander among many others. (Suicide attacks are not IEDs.) It was not the only violent incident of the day, and it was not an unusual day by any means. Geoman: When I say violence has decreased, I obviously don't mean to zero. But you know that, don't you? Yes, as was pointed out in my first comment on the thread. Geoman: It has the appearence of a classic straw man argument. You pretend I think Iraq is a peacefull paradise, and then proceed to demolish me by presenting evidence of a recent attack. Without a sense of irony, you present an argument I never made. We agree that violence in Iraq continues. My point has been that claiming victory in Iraq is premature. Geoman: As for me, I'd like it a bit lower before I'll declare absolute victory, but I concede we are close. And you think...? The invasion of Iraq was a gross strategic blunder that damaged the cause of international stability. Ongoing violence in Iraq means the situation remains precarious, but the Iraqi people are slowly rebuilding from the traumas of the last few years. Events in neighboring countries may make modest advances in Iraq of little consequence to the prospects of long term peace, but that depends on a number of actors and actions. Geoman: Sigh. If we only knew. My position can be found in my first post on the thread, which you followed by conflating sectarian violence with the background murder rate.
Geoman: 15 posts. Care to make it 20 without answering a simple question? I believe in you Z! You can do it buddy! I answered you several times, in several different ways. By any reasonable measure, Iraq is still in a state of war. Geoman: Er..the Nazi comment doesn't really qualify as a "strawman". {snip remainder of ad hominems} Gratuitous ad hominem are arguments of diversion. Geoman: So when I say "attacks are down, except for IEDs" and you respond with "Oh yeah? Well a bomb just went off the other day!" you look pretty silly. The commander of a government anti-riot force, three guards, and seven civilians were killed with 15 others wounded by a suicide bomber. That was just yesterday. Geoman: Also, if I say attacks have decreased significantly, saying "Oh yeah, well one just happened the other day" isan't exactly the zinger you think it is. Attacks have decreased. That wasn't the issue raised. None of the rest of your post responds to that issue, or makes any substantive points.